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[Lizzie_Zoom]

Thanks for that TB and Mark!  

I do now understand what you mean, and I suppose it is just my preference for something made of metal of something of rubber    But of course technology moves on and so do the complexities our all mechanic devices.  These now require a 21st century approach, and not 19th century thinking. 8-) 8-) 8-)  

But I am a steam power girl after all!!

[Marks DTM Calib]

Yes but, the belts are not just rubber, they have a kevlar core (and are bloody hard to cut!)

[kjf7]

well thanks everyone the cars now done 119'000 so do the chains need replacing the old owner (a mate) said the belts were changed but cant find recipt was he stiched up i know he has'nt me as he did'nt want to sell it to me really

[CBH]

Belts also reduce the rotating masses in the engine and were first used on high performace race engines before getting on to road cars. This enables the engine to change RPM quicker and with less strain on the bearings

[Cybertrucker]

You come across more cars where the rubber bands have snapped than you ever did with chains snapping.

One thing I would recomend, from personal experience, is if you take a belt off for some reason (eg head off) don't put it back on again.  We replaced the camshaft on my Dad's Cortina many years ago (it had developed the classic Pinto engine death-rattle!) and on re-assembly we looked at the cam belt and decided it was okay.  Bad move - it snapped less than a week later, fortunately without causing valves and pistons to fight and killing the engine.

Okay, I'm prepared to accept that belt technology has improved in the last 25 years, but ever since then I've adopted the principle that if I take a belt off it goes in the bin.

Incidentally, although I've not known many belts snapping (apart from that one!) I've seen a lot of belts that have badly worn teeth, to the extent that some teeth are missing completely.  If you get too much of that your belt can jump over one of its sprockets and put your timing out, and in extreme cases it could put your timing so far out that valves and pistons can try to be in the same place at the same time, with disastrous consequences!  

[Andy B]

You come across more cars where the rubber bands have snapped than you ever did with chains snapping.

One thing I would recomend, from personal experience, is if you take a belt off for some reason (eg head off) don't put it back on again.  We replaced the camshaft on my Dad's Cortina many years ago (it had developed the classic Pinto engine death-rattle!) and on re-assembly we looked at the cam belt and decided it was okay.  Bad move - it snapped less than a week later, fortunately without causing valves and pistons to fight and killing the engine.

Okay, I'm prepared to accept that belt technology has improved in the last 25 years, but ever since then I've adopted the principle that if I take a belt off it goes in the bin.

Incidentally, although I've not known many belts snapping (apart from that one!) I've seen a lot of belts that have badly worn teeth, to the extent that some teeth are missing completely.  If you get too much of that your belt can jump over one of its sprockets and put your timing out, and in extreme cases it could put your timing so far out that valves and pistons can try to be in the same place at the same time, with disastrous consequences!  

I suppose they're better than the Essex engine's fibre gear. It did make them quieter, especially when they stripped their teeth & the engine died!  

[CBH]

Essex engine was a great engine a bit heavy but bullit proof.
I used to build and race these and always changed the cam drive gear for a metal one supplied by swaymer racing. On a good 3l road engine you could get 180BHP and on a racing one around 240BHP but I always wanted a Cosworth GAA engine based on an ESSEX block with dual cams per bank, belt driven and was around 500BHP

[Andy B]

Essex engine was a great engine a bit heavy but bullit proof.
I used to build and race these and always changed the cam drive gear for a metal one supplied by swaymer racing. On a good 3l road engine you could get 180BHP and on a racing one around 240BHP but I always wanted a Cosworth GAA engine based on an ESSEX block with dual cams per bank, belt driven and was around 500BHP

Didn't know you could get those kind of bhp's from them,

I wonder if my Dad will let me play with his 2.3 ?      

[Marks DTM Calib]

Essex engine was a great engine a bit heavy but bullit proof.
I used to build and race these and always changed the cam drive gear for a metal one supplied by swaymer racing. On a good 3l road engine you could get 180BHP and on a racing one around 240BHP but I always wanted a Cosworth GAA engine based on an ESSEX block with dual cams per bank, belt driven and was around 500BHP

Didn't know you could get those kind of bhp's from them,

I wonder if my Dad will let me play with his 2.3 ?      

You can get those figures from any engine if you throw money at it (i.e. the 500bhp would be expensive).

Trouble with the Essex is that its not a powerful engine out the box and even when tuned up its pretty shite......

30 years ago it could hold its own, in the 80's it was past its best and in the 90's it was anchor fodder!

[Andy B]

......
30 years ago it could hold its own, in the 80's it was past its best and in the 90's it was anchor fodder!

Which is why it's been superceded many times .....  

[CBH]

You are right we were racing Capris in the 70's
We used Holley carbs on the road engines.
The most expensive part of the race engine was the triple webber setup on the Ford X manfold
The 2.3l and 2.9l were Cologne engines not an Essex these had only two inlet ports per head instead of 3.
The Essex was a cut down Ford V8 that had being designed as a deisel that why it was so heavy

[over50now]

My 2006 Astra 1.4 has got a timing chain.   3 days before Christmas, had to have new chain fitted (£450) (Had 44k on the clock). My Mechanic checked with local VX dealer to see if there was a recall.

Had following answer "Nope, but we have just done 8 of those Astras in the past few weeks with 40K on the clock"

Think according to service scheds, 80k should be done.

chain or belt.       or workmanship

[TheBoy]

My 2006 Astra 1.4 has got a timing chain.   3 days before Christmas, had to have new chain fitted (£450) (Had 44k on the clock). My Mechanic checked with local VX dealer to see if there was a recall.

Had following answer "Nope, but we have just done 8 of those Astras in the past few weeks with 40K on the clock"

Think according to service scheds, 80k should be done.

chain or belt.       or workmanship

probably the stupid 20k service interval

[feeutfo]

seen an Alpha 147 twin spark with a head full of bent valves. You could see the valve marks in the pistons with spark plugs removed. Belt was still on, just no teeth on it. They where all sat in the bottom of the belt cover. Those engines borderline ,iirc it had done about 500 miles over the recommended belt life. Wrote the car off.

[Kevin Wood]

The 2.3l and 2.9l were Cologne engines not an Essex these had only two inlet ports per head instead of 3.

I remember a couple of test drives when my dad was looking to change his car in the early 90's. 2.9 12v Cologne engined Scorpio (seiously asthmatic) followed by Senator 3.0 24v. Felt like the hand brake had been taken off when we got into the Senator! Guess what he bought?

It's interesting how some manufacturers alternate between belt and chain. Ford surprised me with the Zetec-E engines. They engineer a perfectly reliable belt setup that is spec'ed for 100k/10 years (and they very rarely fail within that period). Average Ford owners generally aren't the most dilligent at servicing - so find any weaknesses if they exist.

What do they do? Replace it with a chain driven engine!

The fact is, both will suffer if neglected and both need some maintenance, although the belt change intervals on the GM engines is disproportionately frequent.

Belts are a lot easier to service than chains.

I'd much rather buy a car with a belt, change the belt and know that everything is OK than wonder how dilligent the DPO has been with oil changes on a chain setup.

Kevin