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Author Topic: Misfire, clouds of white smoke and nasty smell?  (Read 2528 times)

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ScottieMV6

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Misfire, clouds of white smoke and nasty smell?
« on: 05 August 2009, 17:30:07 »
Just done the oil cooler (albeit the replacement was used - a very low mileage one off a member on here). Been out today and did about 10 miles before the car started misfiring, belching out clouds of white smoke and smelling very nasty.

I'm thinking oil cooler again or head gasket. I know head gasket is very rare but there doesn't seem to be the brown sludge in the header tank that I had last time.

Done paperclip and the only fault is with the SAI system.

Any thoughts?  :( :( :(
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GastronomicKleptomaniac

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Re: Misfire, clouds of white smoke and nasty smell?
« Reply #1 on: 05 August 2009, 17:37:18 »
Sounds similar to mine - I did the oil cooler, it ticked over fine, ran OK for a bit... but my HG is definitely a goner. As evidenced by clouds of white smoke, and, er, a nasty smell...

 Get an exhaust gas sniffer on the job, and have a look for bubbling in the expansion tank when you rev it by hand.

HTH :y
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ScottieMV6

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Re: Misfire, clouds of white smoke and nasty smell?
« Reply #2 on: 05 August 2009, 21:27:55 »
Thanks Pete

I would have a look but I really don't want to run it if I can help it.

Is there anyway to get a definitive answer whether its the HG?
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MutantCav

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Re: Misfire, clouds of white smoke and nasty smell?
« Reply #3 on: 05 August 2009, 21:34:01 »
When the oil cooler failed and presumably the car started over heating...did you continue to use the car??

Headgasket failure on the v6 is generally caused by continued use when over heating as a result of an alternative failure such as oil cooler or water pump...

Symptoms definitely sound like HG though...is there mayo looking stuff on your dipstick too??
« Last Edit: 05 August 2009, 21:34:32 by ShieldOfSteel »
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Re: Misfire, clouds of white smoke and nasty smell?
« Reply #4 on: 05 August 2009, 23:07:25 »
White smoke = water, Blue= oil. sound like HG.
you could try a compression test and see if that gives you any clues ie which side is knackerd, but it is better to change both.
Have you checked what coulor your plugs are? or if they are wet?
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GastronomicKleptomaniac

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Re: Misfire, clouds of white smoke and nasty smell?
« Reply #5 on: 06 August 2009, 04:05:00 »
Quote
Headgasket failure on the v6 is generally caused by continued use when over heating as a result of an alternative failure such as oil cooler or water pump...

 *nods sagely*

 Though mine didn't show as overheating on the temp gauge, it was using coolant. Bed, made, lie in it, etc.  :-[
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ScottieMV6

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Re: Misfire, clouds of white smoke and nasty smell?
« Reply #6 on: 06 August 2009, 09:11:49 »
When the oil cooler failed I stopped using the car straight away and there were no signs of overheating.

There is no mayo on the dipstick but there is in the filler neck (not loads though).

I guess I'll have to go and get a compression tester and see what the results of that are. Anyone tell me what the compression should be?
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Misfire, clouds of white smoke and nasty smell?
« Reply #7 on: 06 August 2009, 10:35:06 »
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Anyone tell me what the compression should be?

At a guess, 12-14 BAR. More important are the relative readings. Sounds like it was a fairly dramatic failure so it should be obvious that one or two cylinders are way down.

Kevin
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Andy H

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Re: Misfire, clouds of white smoke and nasty smell?
« Reply #8 on: 06 August 2009, 10:54:22 »
You can work out a theoretical compression pressure (for a perfect engine) by multiplying atmospheric pressure by the compression ratio.

If your engine has a 10 to 1 compression ratio the theoretical pressure would be 10 * 14.7 psi = 147 psi. This is an absolute pressure (the difference between it and a vacuum). For gauge pressure you have to subtract atmospheric pressure ie 147 - 14.7  = 132.3 psi.

If you use a gauge with Bar on it the maths is simpler because 1 Bar is very close to atmospheric pressure ie 10 * 1 Bar = 10 Bar absolute or 9 Bar gauge.

Because the gauge has a rubber hose you lose some of the compression ratio due to the volume of air in the pipe so you will never see the theoretical pressure.

The key is the difference in pressures between individual cylinders. I think rule of thumb is that anything over 10% variation is bad news. With the symptoms you have described I would expect most of the cylinders to be around 120psi/8Bar and one below 75psi/5Bar.
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Andy H

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Re: Misfire, clouds of white smoke and nasty smell?
« Reply #9 on: 06 August 2009, 10:58:07 »
Caveat: I used 10:1 as an example. The last engine I used my compression tester on was my old Land Rover which may have started out at 8.5 to 1 but was very well worn.
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Andy H

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Re: Misfire, clouds of white smoke and nasty smell?
« Reply #10 on: 06 August 2009, 11:48:10 »
Oops, it is more complicated than I thought. Air gets hot when it is compressed which raises the pressure.

These people http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/comp.htm give a better explanation.
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Misfire, clouds of white smoke and nasty smell?
« Reply #11 on: 06 August 2009, 12:04:38 »
It also depends how strongly it's turning over on the starter. As said, it's the relative readings that are important, because a major mechanical issue such as this won't affect all cylinders equally.

Kevin
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ScottieMV6

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Re: Misfire, clouds of white smoke and nasty smell?
« Reply #12 on: 06 August 2009, 12:04:58 »
Thanks Andy

I am going to buy a compression tester and see what results I get.

Can anyone tell me if I am right in thinking that I need one with a 10mm adapter on the end?
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Andy H

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Re: Misfire, clouds of white smoke and nasty smell?
« Reply #13 on: 06 August 2009, 12:17:54 »
I think Kevin has given you the correct numbers (12-14 bar). The figures I came up with would be more appropriate for a worn out, Land Rover with cart springs.

Not sure about the spark plug thread, you will be taking them out anyway so I would take one with me to the shop to be sure.
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ScottieMV6

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Re: Misfire, clouds of white smoke and nasty smell?
« Reply #14 on: 06 August 2009, 12:34:34 »
I would do that Andy but I have seen this http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002BUU0C/ref=ord_cart_shr?_encoding=UTF8&m=AJ165RZ9PUVHQ and it is a lot cheaper than they are in the shops.

Also I assume that I need the engine relatively intact when I do the test. Can I remove the plenum etc or do I have to do it with everything still in place?
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