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Author Topic: Yet another heater problem.  (Read 1332 times)

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Jusme

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Yet another heater problem.
« on: 03 December 2009, 11:32:05 »
Hi, Heater was working fine then some weeks ago started getting cooler until now,  'nothing even warm'. My mate changed the hbv at my insistance although he said the old one was working perfectly, which it was. Today he flushed out the matrix with a hosepipe, the water ran out immediately in a very strong flow and was clean, still no joy. The top hose to the matrix seems to be getting warm/hot, but the bottom one feels cold ? What I have found confusing is, whatever steady speed I travel at there is just cold air at the vents, 'but', gun the old girl for a few seconds and we get warm air, turn on the fan and it just gets progressively colder, but if I drive erratically by continually gunning the engine, even for 1 - 2 seconds, we get warm air almost continuously ?? Funny thing is though, if I leave it ticking over like forever, it doesn't get warm at all, similarly if I rev the engine while in nuetral still no warmth ? As my Son was really cheesed off continually rubbing the ice off the inside of the screen on the school run, any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.  ;) 
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Under-steer is when the front of the car hits the wall, and over-steer is when the rear of the car hits the wall.
Power is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how much of the wall you take with you.

Abiton

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Re: Yet another heater problem.
« Reply #1 on: 03 December 2009, 12:47:12 »
My understanding is that the HBV diverts coolant past the matrix when there is vacuum on the hose that goes to the top of the thing, and allows it through the matrix when there isn't.

So you appear to be getting vacuum on the HBV when you shouldn't have (and when you rev it, there's less vacuum in the system generally so symptoms temporarily improve).  If you disconnect the vac hose from the HBV does the heater work right (might be an idea to plug the hose if it seems to have a 'suck')?
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Matchless

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Re: Yet another heater problem.
« Reply #2 on: 03 December 2009, 13:09:12 »
Top pipe hot, bottom one cold indicates no water flow through the matrix.
Pull the vac pipe off the HBV and see if you have full vacuum, I suspect little or none.
Check the vac pipes are all in their propper connections (see guide).
Trace the pipe back along its route from HBV to the vac tank above the pollen filter, you are looking for wear or damage to the pipe, especially where it passes through the wall of the heater intake plennum.
Check the non-return valve on the heater vac tank is working.
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alank46

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Re: Yet another heater problem.
« Reply #3 on: 03 December 2009, 14:08:11 »
Hi
As Abiton says, what you are looking for is no vacuum at the HBV which equates to full water flow to the heater.  Vacuum at the HBV means NO water flow to the heater!
Alan


Quote
Top pipe hot, bottom one cold indicates no water flow through the matrix.
Pull the vac pipe off the HBV and see if you have full vacuum, I suspect little or none.
Check the vac pipes are all in their propper connections (see guide).
Trace the pipe back along its route from HBV to the vac tank above the pollen filter, you are looking for wear or damage to the pipe, especially where it passes through the wall of the heater intake plennum.
Check the non-return valve on the heater vac tank is working.
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Elite now gone.  Bought an X-Type 4x4.  If there had been an Omega 4x4 I would have bought that instead.  We really liked the Omega, but I wanted 4x4.

Matchless

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Re: Yet another heater problem.
« Reply #4 on: 03 December 2009, 16:00:26 »
Quote
Hi
As Abiton says, what you are looking for is no vacuum at the HBV which equates to full water flow to the heater.  Vacuum at the HBV means NO water flow to the heater!
Alan

You are right. I was thinking back to a heater blowing hot in summer but only when accelerating.

Quote
Top pipe hot, bottom one cold indicates no water flow through the matrix.
Pull the vac pipe off the HBV and see if you have full vacuum, I suspect little or none.
Check the vac pipes are all in their propper connections (see guide).
Trace the pipe back along its route from HBV to the vac tank above the pollen filter, you are looking for wear or damage to the pipe, especially where it passes through the wall of the heater intake plennum.
Check the non-return valve on the heater vac tank is working.
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Jusme

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Re: Yet another heater problem.
« Reply #5 on: 04 December 2009, 10:30:36 »
My thanks for your input guys, I'll certainly go and try your suggestions. But on the question of vacuum what I find confusing is, as stated, while driving simply 'kicking down' for just 2 seconds brings heat through the vents but, revving it's nuts off while in neutral brings no heat at all ? Thanks again for help.  ;)
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Under-steer is when the front of the car hits the wall, and over-steer is when the rear of the car hits the wall.
Power is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how much of the wall you take with you.

Abiton

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Re: Yet another heater problem.
« Reply #6 on: 04 December 2009, 10:33:16 »
Very low load on the engine in neutral, so little change in the vac conditions with revving.
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Jusme

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Re: Yet another heater problem.
« Reply #7 on: 09 December 2009, 00:22:59 »
Hi and thanks, at least I have some heat at the moment. I'm afraid due to personal problems I have had no time to carry out all suggested, but I did pull off the vac pipe which is continuously sucking, don't know if it should be ? But yes, I got heat straight away, and I'm embarrassed to say, I have left it disconnected as the heat is so necessary right now. Although I have no time to work on the car, my mechanic friend could, is it possible you could help further with other suggestions, and is it normal for the vac pipe to be sucking whatever I have the heater control set at. My gratitude for the help...  ;)
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Under-steer is when the front of the car hits the wall, and over-steer is when the rear of the car hits the wall.
Power is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how much of the wall you take with you.

p j morgan

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Re: Yet another heater problem.
« Reply #8 on: 09 December 2009, 00:44:33 »
hope you dont think i am hijacking your post but i have a simalar thing happening to mebut my in and out hose to the matrix are red hot could i be having the same problem ?when i rev up it sometimes get warmer ? :-/ :-/ :y
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Abiton

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Re: Yet another heater problem.
« Reply #9 on: 09 December 2009, 10:00:28 »
Quote
Hi and thanks, at least I have some heat at the moment. I'm afraid due to personal problems I have had no time to carry out all suggested, but I did pull off the vac pipe which is continuously sucking, don't know if it should be ? But yes, I got heat straight away, and I'm embarrassed to say, I have left it disconnected as the heat is so necessary right now. Although I have no time to work on the car, my mechanic friend could, is it possible you could help further with other suggestions, and is it normal for the vac pipe to be sucking whatever I have the heater control set at. My gratitude for the help...  ;)

Well done.
I'm certain that this vac pipe shouldn't have any suck when the heating is set to 'hot', so there's a fault somewhere in the control system in the cabin, I'd guess.  Solenoid valve stuck/dead, maybe?

Anyway if you've got heat, that's progress.  Did you cap/block the vac line that was sucking?  Should do if you haven't already otherwise you have an air leak, albeit a smallish one, that will have adverse effects.
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Jusme

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Re: Yet another heater problem.
« Reply #10 on: 10 December 2009, 14:23:48 »
My thanks yet again for the help. Yes vac pipe capped off. Now I'm wondering about a 'valve' behind the glovebox ? My mate had a look this far and thought that one of them was not working, could this be the cause of continual sucking ? What a complicated set up this seems to be with these Miggys, and fairly soon the 'General Help' section will be NOTHING but, heater problems ????  Take care..  ;)
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Under-steer is when the front of the car hits the wall, and over-steer is when the rear of the car hits the wall.
Power is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how much of the wall you take with you.

Boatboy

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Re: Yet another heater problem.
« Reply #11 on: 12 December 2009, 12:51:05 »
If it's like mine there are two solenoids side by side behind the glovebox. I believe they are interchangeable. One controls the recirc flap, the other controls the hbv, so you should be able to swop them out to find if one is u/s. When they switch you can hear and feel a solid clunk.

When mine failed it did not switch when required, so hbv constantly supplied hot water to the matrix, the opposite problem to yours. I replaced it (part no 9194863) for c£10 via car parts connexion.

Maybe yours is getting voltage when it shouldn't? easy to check by pulling the connector.

Steve


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