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Author Topic: Oil in/behind cambelt area  (Read 1129 times)

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Bumbazor

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Oil in/behind cambelt area
« on: 06 February 2010, 19:43:24 »

Evening all; I would appreciate some opinions on the following:

I'm doing some work this weekend to trace an oil leak which for various reasons I suspect is not the cam cover gaskets.
I have been losing oil but with symptoms different than when my cc gaskets leaked. Leaking cc gaskets gave me a few drips on the ground and smoke off the exhaust manifolds.
This time I had a lot more oil dumped on the ground, no smoke, and clean exhaust manifolds.

So, to trace it today I got in to the cambelt area and found a gunky mess under the crank pulley. It had collected inside the 'u' of the cambelt rear cover. There wasn't a lot and it wasn't touching the belt. There was probably a little bit of fresh oil there but I can't remember how much or even if there was any fresh at all. However it was definitely oil of whatever age, which I am sure shouldn't be there. I also found a couple of small bits of broken plastic which in good Time Team fashion I extrapolated originally formed a circular object, but I could just be wrong on that although they were plastic (maybe a little bit flexible).

Before I removed the cambelt bits I found runny (dark-ish, not clean, but not old) oil under the belt front cover on the topside of the sump.

The cambelt itself was not oily but when I removed the tensioner unit (you know, with the 1&2 idler on it) there was fresh (cleanish) oil behind it on the engine block. For the oil to get there I can only think it could have come from the cc gaskets (which I checked and were fine; to be replaced with new anyway) or the cam seal(s).

The were also telltale signs that oil had got elsewhere in the cambelt area but not a lot and the belt was by no means covered in oil; in fact I couldn't see any on it. Nevertheless I have a new kit to replace (last done a year ago).

A few days ago while I was aware I had a problem, but before I had time to do this work I cleaned the underside surface of the sump, that bit of chassis just behind it, and a bit of the bellhousing. Today when I checked it I found oil on those surfaces. It was as if it had gone from front to rear, but was actually over most of the area and collecting and dripping off the lowest points (sump bolts, etc).

I have already got new cc gaskets, front and rear crank seals, and cambelt kit to go back on later.

When the front crank seal gives up, what symptoms are shown? Does oil get inside the cambelt area or does it go behind the rear cover and drip down, or a combination of both?

So, given the above, is the front crank seal a strong contender for being faulty?
What about the oil behind the tensioner unit; should I check the cam seals?
Should I remove the cambelt rear cover to get a better idea of where oil might be/have been?
Any other comments?

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To do: Replace brake discs and pads; adjust already replaced shoes; check for leaks in oil cooler, cambelt area, crank seals, sump, dipstick; replace osf door; replace a tyre; clean, MOT.

Matchless

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Re: Oil in/behind cambelt area
« Reply #1 on: 06 February 2010, 20:07:16 »

If the oil is from the camshaft seals there will be some trapped in the recesses behind the cam sprockets.

Otherwise it sounds very like the front crankshaft seal, oil from here spreads out down both sides of the sump and gets blown backwards.

I have the necessary tools for this job if you fancy a trip to Nottingham.
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Bumbazor

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Re: Oil in/behind cambelt area
« Reply #2 on: 06 February 2010, 20:32:49 »

Thanks for the offer Matchless but as I've already got all the bits off the car it's a none-mover. Also my wife is 39 and half weeks pregnant so I have put myself under house arrest for the time being!
I've got a 1m breaker bar and the only thing I don't have is the long metal bar to stop the crank turning, but I'll be making one of those tomorrow.

I wouldn't mind checking the recesses behind the cam sprockets but wouldn't it mean removing the cams too, so they don't go out of TDC when the sprockets are removed?

[edit]Just read up the HG guide; how do I now get everything back to 60degrees before TDC, so I can remove the cam sprockets? Is it, as I fear, to refit the idlers, tensioner, and belt, and turn manually to that position?[/edit]
« Last Edit: 06 February 2010, 21:16:33 by Bumbazor »
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To do: Replace brake discs and pads; adjust already replaced shoes; check for leaks in oil cooler, cambelt area, crank seals, sump, dipstick; replace osf door; replace a tyre; clean, MOT.

Matchless

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Re: Oil in/behind cambelt area
« Reply #3 on: 06 February 2010, 21:28:17 »

Peep through the holes in the cam sprockets, it will be obvious if the cam seals are leaking, especially on the 2 4 6 bank.

Set to TDC, fit the cam locks then remove the belt.
Turn the crank backwards to 60 deg BTDC.
Bolt on your crank holding bar and undo the sprocket bolt.
Pull the crank sprocket off then prise out the old seal.
Take the spacer off the crank nose that the seal runs on, turn it around and put it back....the seal now has new metal to run on.
Press in the new seal
refit crank sprocket and tighten bolt
Turn crank forwards to TDC and fit the crank lock then refit the belt per the DVD.

You should use a new sprocket bolt, it stretches quite a lot as it is tightened (250nm + 60 deg iirc)
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Matchless

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Re: Oil in/behind cambelt area
« Reply #4 on: 06 February 2010, 21:31:36 »

If you have to replace the cam seals you can either make a tool to lock into the holes in the sprockets whilst you undo the bolts or remove the camcovers and use a 24mm spanner on the hex section of the cam.

VX seals preferred, we have had bad experience with pattern seals.
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Bumbazor

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Re: Oil in/behind cambelt area
« Reply #5 on: 06 February 2010, 21:42:48 »

So by locking the cams (as I have already done), and turning the crank back to 60 before TDC (which I have not yet done), when the cam locking tool is removed there's no danger of the cams losing position and causing damage?
« Last Edit: 06 February 2010, 21:48:02 by Bumbazor »
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To do: Replace brake discs and pads; adjust already replaced shoes; check for leaks in oil cooler, cambelt area, crank seals, sump, dipstick; replace osf door; replace a tyre; clean, MOT.

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Re: Oil in/behind cambelt area
« Reply #6 on: 06 February 2010, 23:53:01 »

At 60 BTDC the pistons are all out of the way.
Just use a T bar and torx bit to turn the cams to a stable position, best not to let them fly around.
You wont have to touch them if the seals look OK.
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