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Author Topic: Camber question (not in guide )  (Read 1177 times)

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mtbskills

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Camber question (not in guide )
« on: 23 February 2010, 13:58:04 »
had the tracking done this morning, was miles out, 2 degrees altogether !! steering now light years better ! :)

as the garage had the hawk gear, also had the camber checked as it was free with tracking  :)

-1 deg 50' with  left, -2 deg right with weights as vaux set up, so in tol.

W.I.M recommend -1 10' with no weight

question is, will the camber decrease with weights removed or increase ?

I thought it would decrease, putting mine out of spec and making a visit to wim worthwhile.
Local place wouldn't (couldn't) adjust to my specs ...

Any thoughts ?
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Marks DTM Calib

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Re: Camber question (not in guide )
« Reply #1 on: 23 February 2010, 14:20:54 »
A difficult one as it depends on on the position of the wishbone when weighted.....buts lets just say, My front camber is currently to Vx spec (and has less camber on than yours!) and the front tyres are wearing!
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feeutfo

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Re: Camber question (not in guide )
« Reply #2 on: 23 February 2010, 16:00:44 »
camber will become more aggresive with weight given your curent settings, your wheels are already leaning in at the top by double the recommended amount from vertical.

But ignore the weight side of it, it needs to be 1degree 10 minutes. Anymore and tyre wear will result on the inside edge. If left unatended its possible the tyre can wear down to, and possibly through, the cords risking a blow out.

I've had cords ripped out and tinging the suspension spring cup with each wheel revolution on my first omega.  Wim asap old bean... :y
« Last Edit: 23 February 2010, 19:30:14 by chrisgixer »
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TheBoy

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Re: Camber question (not in guide )
« Reply #3 on: 23 February 2010, 19:06:17 »
The WIM settings are with the car sat unweighted.  Your settings will give high inner shoulder wear
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tigers_gonads

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Re: Camber question (not in guide )
« Reply #4 on: 23 February 2010, 19:57:11 »
slightly off topic i know but does anybody know of a place in the north east who uses wim's settings ?
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feeutfo

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Re: Camber question (not in guide )
« Reply #5 on: 23 February 2010, 21:04:21 »
Quote
slightly off topic i know but does anybody know of a place in the north east who uses wim's settings ?

ring wim, they'll recomend... so i've read.
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tigers_gonads

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Re: Camber question (not in guide )
« Reply #6 on: 23 February 2010, 21:12:46 »
cheers chris
my mig handles like a sack off Sh*t  >:(

looking at swaping the lot for mv6 speck then getting it set up properly
trouble is, wim is along way from hull and i'm skint  :'(
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sparkyw666.

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Re: Camber question (not in guide )
« Reply #7 on: 23 February 2010, 23:34:16 »
Quote
had the tracking done this morning, was miles out, 2 degrees altogether !! steering now light years better ! :)

as the garage had the hawk gear, also had the camber checked as it was free with tracking  :)

-1 deg 50' with  left, -2 deg right with weights as vaux set up, so in tol.

W.I.M recommend -1 10' with no weight

question is, will the camber decrease with weights removed or increase ?

I thought it would decrease, putting mine out of spec and making a visit to wim worthwhile.
Local place wouldn't (couldn't) adjust to my specs ...

Any thoughts ?
ok this weight thing what is that all about then ?  :y
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feeutfo

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Re: Camber question (not in guide )
« Reply #8 on: 24 February 2010, 00:31:22 »
Quote
Quote
had the tracking done this morning, was miles out, 2 degrees altogether !! steering now light years better ! :)

as the garage had the hawk gear, also had the camber checked as it was free with tracking  :)

-1 deg 50' with  left, -2 deg right with weights as vaux set up, so in tol.

W.I.M recommend -1 10' with no weight

question is, will the camber decrease with weights removed or increase ?

I thought it would decrease, putting mine out of spec and making a visit to wim worthwhile.
Local place wouldn't (couldn't) adjust to my specs ...

Any thoughts ?
ok this weight thing what is that all about then ?  :y
on the front, ride hight affects camber angle due to the suspension design, add more weight and the car ride hight drops, this increases camber due the radious action of the wishbones travel as i understand it. Factory setings specify a weight in the drivers seat to simulate the driver in the car, the camber angle is then set at that ride hight.

 WIM have worked out factory spec is so wide that this process is pointless and have come up with their own more accurate settings, these are unloaded.

Camber is always a compromise, tyre wear, understear and stearing stability all come into it, add in suspension wear and tired springs and set up for a used car becomes important over and above factory spec.

I've made this sound factualy correct but is merely my understanding of it... hopefully i've understood it correctly ???
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mtbskills

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Re: Camber question (not in guide )
« Reply #9 on: 24 February 2010, 08:53:48 »
ring wim, they'll recomend... so i've read.
[/quote]


www.alignmycar.com will give alist of places with the hawk alignment gear, but many (my local ) dont want to set things outside the factory specs (preloaded into machine)

the weights as standard are 70kg in driver and pass fronts seats.

Thanks for the advice, i'll keep a close eye on the tyres and budget for 2 new fronts and a visit to WIM soon.  Are they competetive on tyre prices ?
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Entwood

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Re: Camber question (not in guide )
« Reply #10 on: 24 February 2010, 09:44:56 »
Quote
Quote
ring wim, they'll recomend... so i've read.


www.alignmycar.com will give alist of places with the hawk alignment gear, but many (my local ) dont want to set things outside the factory specs (preloaded into machine)

the weights as standard are 70kg in driver and pass fronts seats.

Thanks for the advice, i'll keep a close eye on the tyres and budget for 2 new fronts and a visit to WIM soon.  Are they competetive on tyre prices ?


Yes .. and they "price match" as well.  All in all the best alignment and tyre place I have ever been to in over 40 years of motoring. And they are friendly and welcoming.. as well as giving OOF members a discount.

I cannot praise them high enough.
« Last Edit: 24 February 2010, 09:45:53 by entwood »
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2woody

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Re: Camber question (not in guide )
« Reply #11 on: 24 February 2010, 21:03:19 »
your reading is correct - the camber decreases as the suspension lifts.

there are a couple of things to bear in mind here.....

more negative camber makes the car "turn in " better ( the technical term is "camber-thrust" ), but this is at the cost of feeling more nervous (or more "alive" if you prefer) and can be at the cost of increased tyre wear and some tram-lining.

It also depends on what profile tyres you have - lower profile tyres tolerate negative camber worse than higher profile tyres.

I set the camber to -2 degrees on the track-day car and around -1 degree on the road cars. Seems to work quite well. Adjusted always at a representative weight for what the car is used for, so if it's always only you in the car and you always keep the fuel tank full, then that's how you should have it adjusted.
« Last Edit: 24 February 2010, 21:04:37 by 1417_stuart_grange »
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mtbskills

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Re: Camber question (not in guide )
« Reply #12 on: 25 February 2010, 08:35:24 »
Quote
your reading is correct - the camber decreases as the suspension lifts.

there are a couple of things to bear in mind here.....

more negative camber makes the car "turn in " better ( the technical term is "camber-thrust" ), but this is at the cost of feeling more nervous (or more "alive" if you prefer) and can be at the cost of increased tyre wear and some tram-lining.
It also depends on what profile tyres you have - lower profile tyres tolerate negative camber worse than higher profile tyres.

I set the camber to -2 degrees on the track-day car and around -1 degree on the road cars. Seems to work quite well. Adjusted always at a representative weight for what the car is used for, so if it's always only you in the car and you always keep the fuel tank full, then that's how you should have it adjusted.

Makes sense ! steering is much better now but still "lively" on some surfaces.  -1 deg it is then.

thanks again for all the help  :y
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