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Author Topic: Tramline Issue  (Read 2229 times)

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SnakePliskin

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Tramline Issue
« on: 30 March 2010, 23:27:34 »

Hello everyone

Ive recently fitted my MV6 with 235/45/19's with 5mm spacers and longer bolts all round.
The car looks the nuts and drives superb on smooth roads BUT on country roads she tends to pull all over the place.
Is there anything i can do to prevent this?
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KW

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Re: Tramline Issue
« Reply #1 on: 31 March 2010, 00:06:12 »

Are the spacers hubcentric?
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feeutfo

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Re: Tramline Issue
« Reply #2 on: 31 March 2010, 00:51:19 »

235 45 is stock width and profile but in a 17 on mine and later face lifts i'm fairly sure, depends what width your used to i guess but i'm wondering if the previos size was narrower?

Wider tyres will pull more, plus the spacers may put the wheel off centre to the steering axis highlighting a pull on that side perhaps? try it with out the spacers?

what tyres? what psi?
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feeutfo

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Re: Tramline Issue
« Reply #3 on: 31 March 2010, 00:53:07 »

has the car been set up?
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2woody

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Re: Tramline Issue
« Reply #4 on: 31 March 2010, 09:40:33 »

with 235, it's gonna tramline. Period

good handling = narrow high-profile tyres
good grip = wide low-profile tyres.

you can't have both
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Tramline Issue
« Reply #5 on: 31 March 2010, 10:38:04 »

In addition:

You have probably positioned the contact patch of the tyre differently with respect to the suspension geometry both by increasing the diameter of the wheel and by spacing the wheel differently. This means it will probably now require different camber and caster angles to work properly.

Might be worth getting wheels-in-motion to have a look at it. :y

Kevin
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cem_devecioglu

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Re: Tramline Issue
« Reply #6 on: 31 March 2010, 11:55:02 »

235 size.. will tramline.. the only thing you can do is to increase the pressure but will kill the comfort if there is any..
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bob.dent

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Re: Tramline Issue
« Reply #7 on: 31 March 2010, 16:04:55 »

I have 235/40/17 tyres on mine and it's always been a bit prone to tramlining despite full geometry setup by WIM on several occassions - as already mentioned it's the nature of wider tyres. I have noticed that the degree of tramlining depends on what tyres you run. I found that Falken FK452's were quite bad but Bridgestone Potenza SO2's (now SO3 as SO2 no longer made) and Continental ContiSport Contact 3's much better. Also worth checking wishbone bushes.
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feeutfo

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Re: Tramline Issue
« Reply #8 on: 31 March 2010, 16:32:32 »

Quote
I have 235/40/17 tyres on mine and it's always been a bit prone to tramlining despite full geometry setup by WIM on several occassions - as already mentioned it's the nature of wider tyres. I have noticed that the degree of tramlining depends on what tyres you run. I found that Falken FK452's were quite bad but Bridgestone Potenza SO2's (now SO3 as SO2 no longer made) and Continental ContiSport Contact 3's much better. Also worth checking wishbone bushes.

how do you rate sc3 v bridgestones potenza Bob? esp interseted in tramling v roadnoise ratio especially.

i'm thinking those 2 carictoristics are a trade off given that falkens are quiet but wonder all over the place, and Dunlops seem to track very well but are noisy.

Not sure if this is a reasonable equation but its born through experience of the tyres i've owned.

off topic a little, appologies.
 ;)
« Last Edit: 31 March 2010, 16:49:30 by chrisgixer »
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henryd

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Re: Tramline Issue
« Reply #9 on: 31 March 2010, 16:36:06 »

mine runs 235/45x17 and it will tramline as well,it gets worse as the tyres wear away
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2woody

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Re: Tramline Issue
« Reply #10 on: 01 April 2010, 08:48:32 »

it's the price we pay for fashion...

there's no sound reason for fitting tyres over about 195 section width on something like Omega - beyond there, there's just down-sides, comfort and handling suffer and you get the extra complications of tramlining and aquaplaning.

so why are they fitted - just fashion, really. Over the years, car styling has moved towards big wheels as a styling tool. Omega, being just a facelifted Senator A / Monza really requires the wheel/tyre package from those days, but that would hurt sales.
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bob.dent

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Re: Tramline Issue
« Reply #11 on: 01 April 2010, 09:30:51 »

Quote
Quote
I have 235/40/17 tyres on mine and it's always been a bit prone to tramlining despite full geometry setup by WIM on several occassions - as already mentioned it's the nature of wider tyres. I have noticed that the degree of tramlining depends on what tyres you run. I found that Falken FK452's were quite bad but Bridgestone Potenza SO2's (now SO3 as SO2 no longer made) and Continental ContiSport Contact 3's much better. Also worth checking wishbone bushes.

how do you rate sc3 v bridgestones potenza Bob? esp interseted in tramling v roadnoise ratio especially.

i'm thinking those 2 carictoristics are a trade off given that falkens are quiet but wonder all over the place, and Dunlops seem to track very well but are noisy.

Not sure if this is a reasonable equation but its born through experience of the tyres i've owned.

off topic a little, appologies.
 ;)

A bit difficult to say Chris as I've and SC3 on nearside front and Bridgstone SO2 on the offside! ::) Why am I mixing my tyres on the same axle??  I hear you shout - well, didn't have a lot of choice as I recently popped the nearside tyre on another rather pothole and couldn't get another Bridgestone in my tyre size. Anyway, my garage found a few other brands so I went for the SC3 (The offside tyre will need replacing soon so I'll put another SC3 on to match up)
Anyway, you would never know they were mixed tyres as the handling and braking hasn't been noticeably affected. Tramlining has lessened since the SC3 was fitted but then it always does with new tyres.
I have to say I loved the Bridgestone SO2 but sadly they've stopped making it and replaced with the SO3.
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Jim427

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Re: Tramline Issue
« Reply #12 on: 01 April 2010, 13:45:32 »

Hi, Guys,

Afraid I can’t offer any constructive help for the tramlining problem, but I have noticed it on my recently acquired 51 CDX, (which is running on standard 225/55 - 16s), for the first time in many years.

Hope I do not presume too much, but thought you may like to share this old guys experiences, re this condition which mirror some of the previous comments.

The last time I experienced this phenomenon was with a two year old 1963 Zodiac MK III, with non-standard 165 x 13 radials. (normal wear being 6.40 x 13 cross plies). All big Fords at the time were notorious for tramlining when they had a few thousand miles on the clock, which was attributed to the McPherson front suspension. Did not seem to be a problem with big Vauxhalls, which had re- circulating ball steering, but double wishbone front suspension. This seems to be a general problem associated with a combination of McPherson struts and re- circulating ball steering, radial tyres and general suspension wear and tear. This was highlighted to me when in 2004, I bought a 1965 Thunderbird, which had been fitted with 225/75 - 15 radials. The handling was very vague, especially at low speeds, (as well as the harshness generated on a car not designed for radials being very cruel.) After fitting original spec 8.15 x 15 cross plies, the difference was absolutely amazing. The handling was vastly improved, (not to mention the peace and quiet.), with no signs of any tramlining. These models did not have McPherson front suspension, only English Fords at the time, so assume it was just the oversized radial tyres causing the handling problem and tendancy to tramline. 

I agree with 2woody and cem. We just have to move with the times. Just a pity things never seem to get any better! It’s all happened before!

Kind regards to all.
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KW

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Re: Tramline Issue
« Reply #13 on: 01 April 2010, 13:49:45 »

Quote
there's no sound reason for fitting tyres over about 195 section width on something like Omega
I'm pretty sure the R&D guys at Vx wouldn't have wasted millions in deciding that a 225 section was required if that is the case.
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cem_devecioglu

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Re: Tramline Issue
« Reply #14 on: 01 April 2010, 13:58:43 »

Quote
Quote
there's no sound reason for fitting tyres over about 195 section width on something like Omega
I'm pretty sure the R&D guys at Vx wouldn't have wasted millions in deciding that a 225 section was required if that is the case.

if you are not entering a curve with 100 mph, 225 wont be necessary ;D  :y

I'm using 215/55 16 adrenalines.. and I need their extra cornering ability only when I'm forcing the limits.. :-[

in fact tyre industry first start to use bigger 17-18  wide sizes for sports models initially which was a must as those cars were really hammered and every bit of grip was necessary.. then as mass production drop the costs they start to increase the sizes which now means higher profits (as long as the customers accept) and I do believe we dont  need them in crowded city traffic.. :-/
« Last Edit: 01 April 2010, 14:05:46 by cem_devecioglu »
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