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Author Topic: Looking at an LPG MV6, what's a fair price?  (Read 2093 times)

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heysad

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Looking at an LPG MV6, what's a fair price?
« on: 15 January 2008, 16:56:43 »

1998
Saloon
170i'sh k miles
Professional LPG fitment
Pretty Decent History
Lots of recent work - dampers, discs etc.

Many thanks!


- Andy
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Jay w

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Re: Looking at an LPG MV6, what's a fair price?
« Reply #1 on: 15 January 2008, 18:37:28 »

is it a red manual?

i would say £1500 at least if it is in good nick, dont let the mileage put you off these things can do big mileage if they have been looked after
« Last Edit: 15 January 2008, 18:39:27 by jay_w »
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TheBoy

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Re: Looking at an LPG MV6, what's a fair price?
« Reply #2 on: 15 January 2008, 18:43:17 »

The engine, if looked after, is strong, even at that mileage, though obviously getting towards end of its finite life.  Suspension is probably most renewed anyway, though may be appraoching renewal for 2nd time.

I'd be looking at less than 1k unless its a stunner.
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Grumpy old man

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Re: Looking at an LPG MV6, what's a fair price?
« Reply #3 on: 15 January 2008, 20:34:19 »

I would agree with much of what TheBoy is saying.

At 170k check it rides well (MV6 is firmer and sharper than others, unless they replaced the dampers with standard Omega ones!)

Check the condition of the oil, the coolant and the PAS fluid for an indication of how it has been treated.

Look at the exhaust system (it should have a twin exit back box), remember a new system from cats back is £250 on trade club and £400 retail.

Check the history for the cambelt change (40k/4years) and make sure the full kit was replaced, not just the belt!

Make sure the climate works fine (the condenser tends to disintegrate eventually). Don't buy the "it needs a regas"... it means it probably needs that condenser (£150 ish).

A decent LPG system is a bonus, but should not increase the value by very much on a car that age and mileage.

With all things working, I would say no more than £1,200. Work downwards for each thing that requires attention.

And check the handbrake works!

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heysad

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Re: Looking at an LPG MV6, what's a fair price?
« Reply #4 on: 15 January 2008, 21:26:13 »

Thanks for the advice, I would have it inspected anyway....not too worried about mileage as long as it's been looked after!

Did get that feeling that it was a little overpriced:)

If I was looking around for another other LPG'd V6 Omega where should I be looking?

And yes it is a red one....

Thanks,

- Andrew
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heysad

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Re: Looking at an LPG MV6, what's a fair price?
« Reply #5 on: 16 January 2008, 09:14:28 »

I see Paul M is a member on this site, and I'm guessing it's the same Paul M as the seller?  :)
« Last Edit: 16 January 2008, 09:27:45 by heysad »
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Jay w

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Re: Looking at an LPG MV6, what's a fair price?
« Reply #6 on: 16 January 2008, 09:50:40 »

Quote
I see Paul M is a member on this site, and I'm guessing it's the same Paul M as the seller?  :)

yep, hence my question is it red and manual  :y
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Paul M

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Re: Looking at an LPG MV6, what's a fair price?
« Reply #7 on: 16 January 2008, 14:30:53 »

Yes it appears that it is my car that's being discussed. ::)

I guess in the interests of impartiality I shouldn't really enter the debate on valuation. Ultimately a car is worth what someone is willing to pay for it, as long as that price matches what the owner is willing to sell at. I have had interest from a few people, of course interest doesn't imply a sale... it's only been advertised on here and Pistonheads, so I've not really made any effort to sell yet (will be going in Auto Trader soon). However I'll give my reasons on why I have priced it where it is. I should add that I asked for a valuation on here previously, and I got very little response... interesting how things change when a newbie asks ;)

As much as some of you guys really don't like LPG systems (aka "fart gas" as it is affectionately known on here) I know through personal experience that it significantly increases the value of an old, big-engined car like the Omega. When I was looking around I could have bought several similar MV6s to this for far less, but that would have been a false economy as this car has saved me over £2000 in fuel costs during my ownership compared to a petrol model. So I was more than happy to pay "over the odds" as some may believe, as the car has near enough paid for itself.

Yes, there are cheaper models out there, but comparing like for like I don't think you'll find much. There are very few dual-fuel manual Mv6s (or 3.0 manual Elites), and among those how many have been properly maintained? There are a lot of sheds in the Omega marketplace. The way I see it, you can either buy a cheap car and spend a lot of money getting it up to standard, or buy a good one in the first place that someone else has spent the money on. A car is only as good as its last owner ;). As a good example I know someone who bought an LPG'd 1997 Elite about a year ago, bartered the price down to £1300. Within a few months of ownership he'd spent over £500 replacing suspension components, brake discs etc. That was parts costs only -- he's a mechanic so done all the work himself, otherwise labour costs would have increased the cost even more. He knew about those issues before buying, and used them to barter the price down.

In summary, show me an advert for a similarly specced Omega going for ~£1k that has been properly maintained (mine has had recent wisbones, subframe bushes, cam cover gaskets, coolant change, plugs & leads, heater bypass valve, full cat-back exhaust, etc etc). One that's just passed an MOT with no advisories, and has plenty of life left in all the consumables like brake discs/pads, tyres, etc. Also one where absolutely everything works on it, because anything that has broken has been fixed or replaced -- every bulb in the interior works, every pixel on the MID, climate control works 100% etc. Find one where the interior is immaculate and looks like it could have come from a 60,000 mile car, etc. One that has a properly installed multi-point LPG system with certificate, not one of those crappy single point systems that seem to be bodged onto all the cheap LPG Omegas on the market. Oh and most importantly find one that isn't crawling with rust, the photos of mine speak for themselves ;).

Basically it comes down to: Yes my car may be listed a little more expensive than some others, but which is going to be more expensive in the long run? Purchase price isn't everything :D I'm in no desperation to sell, ideally I'd like to go back to having only one car for road tax and insurance reasons (I don't do the mileage any more to justify it), but if it doesn't go I'll probably use it for a Europe tour this summer -- at a fuel saving of 20p/mile compared to using my BMW it could quite easily save me a good £4-500 on that trip alone. Hence why I'm in no hurry to let it go for peanuts, although I am open to reasonable offers ;)

Thoughts? Am I opening a can of worms here? ::)
« Last Edit: 16 January 2008, 14:40:47 by Paul_M »
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Paul M

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Re: Looking at an LPG MV6, what's a fair price?
« Reply #8 on: 16 January 2008, 14:34:50 »

BTW the original sale post is here. Note the huge influx of valuations offered when I initially asked ::)
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markey mark

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Re: Looking at an LPG MV6, what's a fair price?
« Reply #9 on: 16 January 2008, 14:36:06 »

no paul i totally agree with you mate !! a car is as good as its last owner ! like you say its ok buying a cheap car then spending a load on it or pay a bit more thats well sorted ! like you say lots of dogs out there matey !! :y
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heysad

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Re: Looking at an LPG MV6, what's a fair price?
« Reply #10 on: 16 January 2008, 14:41:41 »

Hi Paul,

I did wonder how long it would take you to post:)

To be fair you've been pretty up front about things and have been very forthcoming with information...

I posted here 'cos I really had no idea on whether the price was reasonable, had a look on Parkers but that didn't seem to bear much resemblance to reality!! (Does it ever??)

- Andrew

BTW I've sent you an e-mail:)
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Paul M

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Re: Looking at an LPG MV6, what's a fair price?
« Reply #11 on: 16 January 2008, 14:46:17 »

Quote
no paul i totally agree with you mate !! a car is as good as its last owner ! like you say its ok buying a cheap car then spending a load on it or pay a bit more thats well sorted ! like you say lots of dogs out there matey !! :y

Absolutely mate, that was the point I was making. I think it's especially important to consider when you get to the low end of the price spectrum like pre-facelift Omegas are now. Those £500 "bargains" can be very tempting, but when you have to spend say £300 on new tyres, another £200 on a new exhaust, and it fails its next MOT on excessive rust, is it really such a bargain? ;)

I'd rather have a car I can just drive without worrying about it because it's been well maintained. Which is why I've never bought a car at the low end of the price range of cars I'm looking at, it's worth paying a little more for a good example. It's worked so far, as I've yet to end up with a shed or any large unexpected bills etc.
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Paul M

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Re: Looking at an LPG MV6, what's a fair price?
« Reply #12 on: 16 January 2008, 14:52:21 »

Quote
Hi Paul,

I did wonder how long it would take you to post:)

To be fair you've been pretty up front about things and have been very forthcoming with information...

I posted here 'cos I really had no idea on whether the price was reasonable, had a look on Parkers but that didn't seem to bear much resemblance to reality!! (Does it ever??)

- Andrew

BTW I've sent you an e-mail:)

No worries mate, you're quite right to do your own investigation into values, what to look out for etc. I always do the same myself when looking to buy a car.

I just think that a valuation has to take into account so many factors, and in my opinion you can only compare like for like. Which is why I asked to see a car similar to mine in both spec and condition for sale at around £1k as was suggested by some, as I've certainly never seen one. I think some people on here don't like LPG and basically consider it to be worthless, which is a viewpoint they're perfectly entitled to, but the market doesn't see it that way. I had to pay more to buy mine because of the LPG, hence I expect to get some of that back on resale. Not that it really matters as I've saved thousands as mentioned before, but I'm sure any potential buyer looking for an LPG car is thinking along the same lines.

But as stated in my previous post, it's worth what someone is willing to pay ;)
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JamesV6CDX

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Re: Looking at an LPG MV6, what's a fair price?
« Reply #13 on: 16 January 2008, 15:47:41 »

Hi Paul,

I know what you mean, I also read a lot about LPG not adding value.

TBH though, if I was not capable of DIY installing it, and wanted my fuel at 40p a litre - I would HAVE to pay a little more than usual for a car that's already converted!

In terms of it being "fart gas"... people must remember it has an octane rating higher than V power etc.... and with LPG, it's all down to how it's been installed and set up!

On a good install, LPG will go for hundreds of thousands of miles without causing any probs.

Ive no regrets about converting...
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Paul M

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Re: Looking at an LPG MV6, what's a fair price?
« Reply #14 on: 16 January 2008, 16:24:10 »

I agree completely, which is why I'm more than willing to pay more for an LPG'd car (I've had a few). Even DIYing a decent multi-point kit costs in the region of £800, and I'd bet the vast majority of people don't have the skills and tools etc you have to do the whole install themselves, so in reality they'll probably end up paying big bucks for a pro install (the one on my car was £1800 for example).

When you consider that, compared with an equivalent petrol model, I save around 10p/mile running on gas, it's obvious why it's so attractive to those of us where money is an issue. Let's face it if money was no object we wouldn't be driving around in cars worth less than £2k ;). So an average driver doing 12k a year saves ~£1200. Not to be sniffed at!

I don't really get the opposition to it, unless you actually like giving the chancellor even more of your hard earned than you have to. And yes, as stated propane is actually a better road fuel than petrol for several reasons, one being that it vapourises naturally (none of the pseudo-vapourisation of petrol by atomisation etc) so you get a more complete combustion, less contamination of the oil, not to mention less crap out of the exhaust. An engine purely designed to run on propane could run higher compression and more advance = more power. Yes the calorific value is slightly lower, but that just means you need a bit more fuel for the same energy output. If you want a highly calorific fuel get a diesel ;).

If I start doing high mileage again, I will certainly be looking to buy another dual-fuel car.
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