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[Dave DND]

Alex,

May I take the oppurtunity to welcome you to OOF and to clarify a few points that you, and some others have raised.

But if you don't want to share your "secrets" don't invite all sundry to pm for them.

I didn`t, I replied to a question that Lizzie had asked and at no point did I ask everybody to email me.

Its very insulting to be invited to request information and then be told that you're not good enough to be included in the clique.

Again, I didn`t ask everybody to PM me, but I stand by my reasons for not replying to everybody.

Before my posting here no-one knew I had even sent a pm but many people HAD annouced in this thread that they were sending one

Can I state for the record, why on earth has everybody done that? I fail to see why a public forum needs an indication that a private PM has been sent?

DaveDND has just publicly announced his personal disrespect for several of those members. He has compounded the insult by saying that he's not even going to bother with a personal reply

I have little respect for people publicly pulling apart what I have said out of context. Climb down off your high horse my friend, take a deep breath and re-read what has been said and think about it before you go much further.

it was he that invited everyone to waste their time with pm's in the first place. Now we have some members posting thanks and others being made to feel worthless.

Again, no I didn`t - The invitation to send me a Private Message was to Lizzie. Quite why poeple have posted other comments as a result of my Private Messages to them is not something I can control or condone.

If new members are going to be treated like that they won't stay around for long. I'm glad to say that everyone else I have encountered on the forum has been fantastically welcoming.

If new members are going to throw tantrums towards people that they have never actually entered into a two way conversation with, is it any surprise that I too may become a little hostile when I finally get around to talking to you?

What we seem to have here is a guy running a business that appears to specialise in cracking proprietory coding information for commercial gain, that obviously involves a serious investment of time and resources. It must go against the grain for a businessman to be giving away knowledge of commercial value to him in a free forum when there is obviously great demand. I can't think what possessed him to offer it in the first place.

Yes, I am a Business, and I give an awful lot of my time and advice freely to members of OOF, but you appear to be making a lot of other assumptions about me for which you have no knowledge of. Besides, who said that anything was being given away in a Free forum? Its because of greedy "want something for nothing" attitudes such as yours that have prevented me from offering this to everybody, and this is exactly the reason why.

At the end of the day, I can understand the need for technical forums and the invaluable help that they can provide, and in order to promote activity in the forum, I want to ensure that there are no "Freeloaders" or people simply not willing to join in any threads or conversations or adding to any input.

So, I would say to Alex ...."Jump in, join in and enjoy. Yes, it's a car forum -- but it's not ALL about cars"

I woldn`t just say that to Alex, I`d say it to everybody. Its a good community out there, and the more you join in, the more benefits will become apparent from its memebers once you get to know them.

But what I would say to Alex though, is Know Thy Enemy !  because if you want to start a fight with me, then you really ought to get to know a bit about me first instead of just ranting away, or you may not realise what or who you are up against.  

[Andy B]

Trafficmaster is still quite beneficial if you do a reasonable mileage, and from feedback given, works fairly well.

The only gripe everybody seems to have is the around £30 a year subscription that they charge. Obviously I cannot discuss this subscription issue any further on a public forum, but by all means PM me and I`ll let you into a little secret

 

I'm not taking side here but if this little secret was indeed just for Lizzie, why didn't you PM her direct, instead of posting it onto an open forum?

[Andy B]

....
But what I would say to Alex though, is Know Thy Enemy !  because if you want to start a fight with me, then you really ought to get to know a bit about me first instead of just ranting away, or you may not realise what or who you are up against.  

Uncalled for. Alex had a point he wanted to put across, which he did without slagging anybody, or asking for a fight.

[Dave DND]

Trafficmaster is still quite beneficial if you do a reasonable mileage, and from feedback given, works fairly well.

The only gripe everybody seems to have is the around £30 a year subscription that they charge. Obviously I cannot discuss this subscription issue any further on a public forum, but by all means PM me and I`ll let you into a little secret

 

I'm not taking side here but if this little secret was indeed just for Lizzie, why didn't you PM her direct, instead of posting it onto an open forum?

A fair point indeed.

The reply was given in response to a question that Lizzie had raised, and was intended to give an indication that a solution was available but for whatever reason could not be placed on an open forum.

I had hoped that my comments would also imply that this may be a sensitive area, and that it would not be "Correct" to  divulge some of the TM information in a public forum and so to prevent any moderators or OOF itself from getting into deep water, the reply was posted in a vain attempt to prevent people from discussing "openly" on the forum and to keep the conversation "Private"

There are aspects that I would love to discuss publically on the open forum, but legislation prevents me from doing so, and some caution has to therefore be given as to who is allowed to join in the "offline" conversations.

 

[Dave DND]

Uncalled for. Alex had a point he wanted to put across, which he did without slagging anybody, or asking for a fight.

Really?

I have never conversed with Alex, nor have ever had any dealings with him, and yet he has just publically inferred to the OOF community that I have no respect for some of its members.

I take exceptional offence to that.

[Brian T]

Surely if you announce to the world you have a secret, even if you didn't mean it directly then the world is going to ask you what it is.
I sent a PM at the same time as Dodger and yet he has had a reply and I don't. yet we have similar status.

Dave if you wish to share your secret with others that is of course entirely up to you I will not think any more or less of you one way or the other....as you say I don't know you

Over the last few weeks I have felt more confident joining in on conversations that I'm not directly invited too. On the whole everybody is very helpful. I understand you feeling annoyed that your intergrity was being questioned but as for threatening behaviour that is not what I would expect from the adults that post here.[smiley=thumbdown.gif]
Let's hope that some of the newbies that have just joined don't read too far into this post, or we may just frighten them away.

[Ian_D]

Tricky one, but if something’s a 'secret' then he’s not going to tell everyone willy-nilly is he? Regardless of where abouts he has stated that he knows some info on these TM boxes (public or passworded area).

I can see this from both points of view, however at the end of the day, Dave has to cover his own back. An therefore he only says this little secret to known members which I agree with.

Come on, Lets face it, you could be anyone out there... Hell you could even work for TM!!!  

[Andy B]

...... An therefore he only says this little secret to known members which I agree with. ......

So that makes all members equal. But some more equal than others.
 :-?
The impression that a lot of OOF'ers got, was that if you PM'd Dave he would share his 'secret'. At least the first handful to PM got the same impression as me.
I took my TM out when I first got the car so I had no interest in the 'secret' any way.

[Dave DND]

This thread could turn very nasty if not carefull, and I do not want that.

Surely if you announce to the world you have a secret, even if you didn't mean it directly then the world is going to ask you what it is.
I sent a PM at the same time as Dodger and yet he has had a reply and I don't. yet we have similar status

I welcome being asked anything by anybody. Our Online Technical call centre receives 2000+ emails a day, but we do not always get around to answering each one. Brian, apologies, I thought I had responded to you, and have just done so.

Over the last few weeks I have felt more confident joining in on conversations that I'm not directly invited too. On the whole everybody is very helpful.

Thats the real beauty of the forum, anybody can have their say. You do not have to be technical to share your experiences, and to be honest some of the best technical information has been gained from passing comments made by the casual remarks made by non technical people.

I understand you feeling annoyed that your intergrity was being questioned but as for threatening behaviour that is not what I would expect from the adults that post here

I make no apologies for this. If somebody publically criticises my Company without even having the decency to strike up a conversation with me first, then expect hostilities from me. I am happy to receive criticism at any level, but have the decency to communicate with me at least once.

Let's hope that some of the newbies that have just joined don't read too far into this post, or we may just frighten them away.

I doubt that will happen, the OOFers are too nice a bunch of people.

Tricky one, but if something’s a 'secret' then he’s not going to tell everyone willy-nilly is he? Regardless of where abouts he has stated that he knows some info on these TM boxes (public or passworded area).

I can see this from both points of view, however at the end of the day, Dave has to cover his own back. An therefore he only says this little secret to known members which I agree with.

Come on, Lets face it, you could be anyone out there... Hell you could even work for TM!!!  

Yes, I have to cover my own back, and also protect the OOF forum. Not necessarily from the information or services I am aware of, but it would be innappropriate to discuss this in a public forum. TM could get very upset with OOF if the conversation took a wrong turn. But that said, 99% of people I tell this to are not members that are known to me either, they are simply people who are playing an active part in the forum over a longer period of time.

So that makes all members equal. But some more equal than others.

Don`t know where that is coming from. The PM service has always been available to everybody, I have simply chosen to use it.

I do not answer every email, and I occasionally let the phone ring without answering - that does not make me a bad person, it means I am a busy one.

Please Please Please do not let this continue into a slagging match against any members as I do not want any further bad feeling to come out of this. Not everybody talks to each other, and sometimes they never will. There may be not be any reason for this, but instead of publically criticising any lack of communication, I would instead be respectful of the fact that there may indeed be a valid reason behind it.

[RichardH]

I think both sides have gotten their point across at this stage.  I personally think that Alex_W was just a little too aggressive in his condemnation of Dave, and making assumptions about his character without even knowing him or recognising all the help he has given people in the past on this forum.  

I think it says a lot for Dave's character that he has restrained himself from entering into a slagging match as that could easily have happened in this case.

Both sides have very valid points to make, but lets just keep it civil and not cast judgement.

[Ivorcally]

Phew!  Have I missed the point, or is this an argument fired by the possibility of saving £30 a year?  Surely not - that's 58p a week!  Many people would have spent more on the electricity to run there computers just to read this stuff!  

Fair points made on both sides, but please, keep it real.

[Dave DND]

 

lol !!

[Alex W]

Dave, I didn't question your integrity, I didn't criticise your company. I just criticised your handling of this, admittedly quite trivial, matter.

If you look at your inbox you will see that I did try to communicate with you directly by pm, in response to your original offer, but you announced to the whole forum that you wouldn't be replying to those that haven't made enough posts. Then you complain that I have criticised you on the forum without communicating with you directly.

To announce, publicly, that you will deal with some people but not others indicates to me that you hold some contributors in higher regard than others, if that is not, by default, showing disrespect for the "others" then obviously I don't understand the meaning of the word and if so, I apologise for its use.

The problems here are of your own making. You shouldn't have made the original offer to Lizzie in open forum but then, having albeit unintentionally, opened the "can of worms" you should have replied to everyone personally and privately, even if it was just to turn them down.

I am a gentle man in quite poor health and have no wish to make enemies of anyone. I am certainly not trying to pick fights. I do not understand why you feel the need to make veiled threats.

In view of your threatening demeanour I have decided that I will make no further posts to this forum and because of fears for my personal safety I cannot now attend the WIM event on 27th July.

[-Alex-]

PM sent   only joking!

Can see from one side you can't give sensitive info out on a forum, and from another that others received the secret to everlasting life and love while he did not.

Surely this is all a misunderstanding technically?  

[Entwood]

Dave, I didn't question your integrity, I didn't criticise your company. I just criticised your handling of this, admittedly quite trivial, matter.

If you look at your inbox you will see that I did try to communicate with you directly by pm, in response to your original offer, but you announced to the whole forum that you wouldn't be replying to those that haven't made enough posts. Then you complain that I have criticised you on the forum without communicating with you directly.

To announce, publicly, that you will deal with some people but not others indicates to me that you hold some contributors in higher regard than others, if that is not, by default, showing disrespect for the "others" then obviously I don't understand the meaning of the word and if so, I apologise for its use.

The problems here are of your own making. You shouldn't have made the original offer to Lizzie in open forum but then, having albeit unintentionally, opened the "can of worms" you should have replied to everyone personally and privately, even if it was just to turn them down.

I am a gentle man in quite poor health and have no wish to make enemies of anyone. I am certainly not trying to pick fights. I do not understand why you feel the need to make veiled threats.

In view of your threatening demeanour I have decided that I will make no further posts to this forum and because of fears for my personal safety I cannot now attend the WIM event on 27th July.

Over the top or what I had some small sympathy for your point of view right up until you posted that..

Teddy, cot, spoilt brat behaviour all come to mind.... and you've just reinforced the opinion that you were here to "take" rather than "give ".

Just my opinion .. thats all