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[Nickbat]

(NOT for "chrisgixer"  )

As Germany raised fresh objections to the proposed rescue deal for indebted eurozone countries, the International Monetary Fund signalled it was considering stepping in - a move that could lead to British taxpayers paying to support the single currency.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/8849346/Eurozone-debt-crisis-talks-break-down-as-Angela-Merkel-rejects-rescue-deal.html

I am just emptying the kids' piggy banks and will wire my contribution to the IMF first thing tomorrow.

 

 

[albitz]

News reported tonight that they have agreed to up the currently agreed rescue fund by "several fold" whatever that means ?
Bankrupting the world at large and Europe in particular to try to hang onto their own dreams of ultimate power.Its rather criminal.

[Varche]

It is a nice feeling to wake up today and find we are all saved. Well done Eurozone leaders with support from the sidelines from EU none eurozone leaders.

Spare a thought for the "poor banks" having to agree to the haircut. (Who thought up that daft term? Same person maybe as thought up undercutin F1 maybe?). Right now they will be having board room meetings to conjure up ways of making good the haircut (can't use the word losses as politically incorrect). Yep we can expect charges to go up, services to worsen and returns on investments to worsen as hidden chgarges gobble up your gains. Bad time to be coming up to retirement.

On a lighter note, has anyone else spotted the body language between Merkel and Sarkozy? She is always talking to him as they walk. He studiously is ignoring her and instead looking around for the admiring smiles of his sycophants. 

PS How long before the Italians start rioting like the Greeks when they find out what austerity their PM agreed to in his submitted letter to Merkel and Sarkozy?

[albitz]

It is a nice feeling to wake up today and find we are all saved. Well done Eurozone leaders with support from the sidelines from EU none eurozone leaders.

Spare a thought for the "poor banks" having to agree to the haircut. (Who thought up that daft term? Same person maybe as thought up undercutin F1 maybe?). Right now they will be having board room meetings to conjure up ways of making good the haircut (can't use the word losses as politically incorrect). Yep we can expect charges to go up, services to worsen and returns on investments to worsen as hidden chgarges gobble up your gains. Bad time to be coming up to retirement.

On a lighter note, has anyone else spotted the body language between Merkel and Sarkozy? She is always talking to him as they walk. He studiously is ignoring her and instead looking around for the admiring smiles of his sycophants. 

PS How long before the Italians start rioting like the Greeks when they find out what austerity their PM agreed to in his submitted letter to Merkel and Sarkozy?

I have to assume your tongue is firmly in your cheek there Varche ?

[Kevin Wood]

It is a nice feeling to wake up today and find we are all saved. Well done Eurozone leaders with support from the sidelines from EU none eurozone leaders.

I have to assume your tongue is firmly in your cheek there Varche ?

No, he's right. We truly are saved.

'til next week.

[Dishevelled Den]

It is a nice feeling to wake up today and find we are all saved. Well done Eurozone leaders with support from the sidelines from EU none eurozone leaders.

Spare a thought for the "poor banks" having to agree to the haircut. (Who thought up that daft term? Same person maybe as thought up undercutin F1 maybe?). Right now they will be having board room meetings to conjure up ways of making good the haircut (can't use the word losses as politically incorrect). Yep we can expect charges to go up, services to worsen and returns on investments to worsen as hidden chgarges gobble up your gains. Bad time to be coming up to retirement.

On a lighter note, has anyone else spotted the body language between Merkel and Sarkozy? She is always talking to him as they walk. He studiously is ignoring her and instead looking around for the admiring smiles of his sycophants. 

PS How long before the Italians start rioting like the Greeks when they find out what austerity their PM agreed to in his submitted letter to Merkel and Sarkozy?

I
t beggars belief that this has been allowed to run on to this extent.

Would it not be reasonable to assume that 'Brussels' will continue to mismanage its empire, as it seems to me that fiscal responsibility falls far from its purview?

V’s point on potential unrest in Italy does indeed hold some very real problems for the faceless bureaucrats in ‘Brussels’ – only when widespread civil unrest happens within one of countries closer to home, will the situation begin to ravel out of control.

Of course the most important thing to watch out for is the first cry that ‘Brussels’ needs to assume total power over all the membership so that the union can speak and act with one voice, security maintained and prosperity guaranteed.

Out of despair comes the supposed saviour of the day – those faceless ones who have been waiting for such an inopportunity to perform a well planned smash and grab raid on the sovereignty of each member nation – purely for our collective good, you understand.

[blackviper90210]

As pointed out, the radio news this morning telling us how after 10 hours they've saved the economy....yeah right.   This means that Greece will have its debt written off to some extent and more money poured in to balance things out

Where the hell is this money coming from and how much have they got to "spend/right off"?    Ahhh, thats right US!

We need to nuke Brussels and all the europrats and forget it ever happended 

[albitz]

Tbh Den,a USE scenario is the only one which can actually work. Providing they can convince the peoples of the nations involved to accept it without squealing too loudly.The current system of one currency with many different financial regimes / systems attached to it cannot ever work under any circumstances,as I think has been proven in recent times.
I have no doubt that the powers that be fully intend for this to be the final outcome,but they cant admit to it of course.It has to be a case of slowly slowly catchy monkey.
This latest expensive sticking plaster will buy them more time to work out the best strategy to proceed in that direction.It actually creates a big opportunity to move faster, if they play their cards right imo.

[Dishevelled Den]

Tbh Den,a USE scenario is the only one which can actually work. Providing they can convince the peoples of the nations involved to accept it without squealing too loudly.The current system of one currency with many different financial regimes / systems attached to it cannot ever work under any circumstances,as I think has been proven in recent times.
I have no doubt that the powers that be fully intend for this to be the final outcome,but they cant admit to it of course.It has to be a case of slowly slowly catchy monkey.
This latest expensive sticking plaster will buy them more time to work out the best strategy to proceed in that direction.It actually creates a big opportunity to move faster, if they play their cards right imo.

Yes, I've said that before son - the EU makes no sense without total integration – all foreign, domestic, financial policy, a common system for administration of justice and so on.

Naturally that’s why it won’t work in the way envisaged – each nation is too disparate, the values and aspirations held by the peoples of each nation comprising the membership is sufficiently different to render an amalgam of common purpose impossible.

The common association of trading nations - working to make free trade - was certainly a laudable enough goal, but the monster that was spawned when certain people saw the opportunity to weld the differing nations into one super state knocked that original intent into a cocked hat.

It is a dangerous desire to have ‘Brussels’ as the sole voice of Europe’s mass choir and, soon after total integration, the song being sung will less than tuneful to the many ears within the new state.

[albitz]

Entirely agree Den. Time for us to jump ship imo, but Cameron wont have it.I dont trust him as far as I could throw him.

[feeutfo]

Oh really, NOT for chrisgixer aye?   Ffs.

[Marks DTM Calib]

No chance of us jumping from europe at the moment, they owe us to much money which we in turn owe to others.

It could well be a get out and lose the lot which we cant afford.

Hence we have to stay put and offset the risk sadly.

[Nickbat]

...to render an amalgam of common purpose impossible.

There's something about that term I just don't like. 

[Sir Tigger KC]

Camoron certainly missed a trick here IMO.  Earlier in the week he said the time wasn't right for an EU referendum and that we should be supporting our neighbours in trouble.  He implemented the 3 line whip, effectively shutting down all debate on the issue, and probably did so under pressure from Merkel & Sarkozy.  If he'd allowed a free vote on the referendum it would have been a closer result and would have sent a message to Brussels, .... at the right time!!!   

As to 'the deal' the way I understand it is that a bunch of people have been told that they mustn't demand all the money back that they have lent, in return some other people will give them some money to make up some of their losses.  These other people will borrow the money from other people to give to the first bunch.  The other people however have yet to agree to lend to the other people as they can see that they will just give it to the first bunch who were stupid in the first place and still haven't changed much.  If the other people don't lend to the other people, then the other people will get bits of paper called 'guarentees' from governments to cover the first bunchs losses, the governments don't care as they will have been voted out of office by then time guarentees are due, leaving one hell of a mess for the next adminstration to clear up.... In the meantime, some of the first bunch of people, seeing that they would have to take a big loss on their debts have sold the debts at less of a discount to some really nasty people called 'Hedge funds' who won't be nice about it and will demand 100% of the loan and interest back, otherwise they'll send the lads round.  This will get all the other people in a complete panic again..... and so we'll go on..... 

[Marks DTM Calib]

Or, Germany will take control of the euro and pull the strings on Italy (sounds familiar) and Greece (think they have been there before) plus potentialy Spain and Portugal (to hilly for them to get there in the past) with the French as side kicks (Leopard and spots springs to mind!).

We will probably get some input to Ireland (oh cock, we only realy just sorted that one out!) and some future trade agreements into the expanded German empire.

Is it 1940 again?