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[smithpa7]

I have used my local Kwitfit for over 20 years. They have been extremely helpful in all of that time, I know many others have had bad experiences.

However, the BMW wouldn't start the other day due to a flat battery. So I got it started and went to Kwikfit, the battery is only 11 months old and has a 3 year warranty from Kwikfit.

The new manager, Paul, introduced himself and invited me to watch him testing the battery and alternator, so far so good!
His tester showed the output voltage from the alternator under a full electrical load was 13.0v. I know this slightly low, so I asked him if maybe the fan belt was loose or if the car had a bad electrical connection? In a flash he stated it couldn't possibly be either of those and I will need a new alternator. He had a price for one in seconds (£317 fitted) and said he could fit it on Monday.

I politely declined and said I would come back to him.
 
I did follow Kevin Wood's excellent guide and everything is within tolerance except my digital meter was showing 13.5v under full electrical load.

1. Was I wrong in assuming it could be a fan belt or electrical connection problem?
2. Is 13.0 v too low under full electrical load? (13.5v with my own digital meter)
3. Is £317 a good price for an alternator?

I have since fully charged the battery through a battery charger and it is working fine and the battery is holding charge overnight at 12.6v.

Do I need to do anything? All help would be most appreciated.

[JamesV6CDX]

Have you done lots of short journeys with loads of electrical stuff running?

[smithpa7]

For a few weeks to be honest, SWMBO does a couple of journey's a day that are less than two miles and headlight, fans etc are all running.

[Ken T]

You might want to check the battery terminals are crimped tightly, see http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=90122.msg1152291#msg1152291

Ken

[smithpa7]

Thanks Ken, I will check the terminals.
One other question, the battery in the BMW Touring is in the boot the terminals have never had any grease on them. The last battery was the original. Would it help if I applied some grease??

[Ken T]

I have used my local Kwitfit for over 20 years. They have been extremely helpful in all of that time, I know many others have had bad experiences.

However, the BMW wouldn't start the other day due to a flat battery. So I got it started and went to Kwikfit, the battery is only 11 months old and has a 3 year warranty from Kwikfit.

The new manager, Paul, introduced himself and invited me to watch him testing the battery and alternator, so far so good!
His tester showed the output voltage from the alternator under a full electrical load was 13.0v. I know this slightly low, so I asked him if maybe the fan belt was loose or if the car had a bad electrical connection? In a flash he stated it couldn't possibly be either of those and I will need a new alternator. He had a price for one in seconds (£317 fitted) and said he could fit it on Monday.

I politely declined and said I would come back to him.
 
I did follow Kevin Wood's excellent guide and everything is within tolerance except my digital meter was showing 13.5v under full electrical load.

1. Was I wrong in assuming it could be a fan belt or electrical connection problem?
2. Is 13.0 v too low under full electrical load? (13.5v with my own digital meter)
3. Is £317 a good price for an alternator?

I have since fully charged the battery through a battery charger and it is working fine and the battery is holding charge overnight at 12.6v.

Do I need to do anything? All help would be most appreciated.

1.no, if the earth or terminals were not secured properly or oxidised, there will be a volts drop across them.
2.yes
3.yes (for kwik fit) 

12.6V is a bit low for a fully charged battery.

Ken

[Ken T]

Thanks Ken, I will check the terminals.
One other question, the battery in the BMW Touring is in the boot the terminals have never had any grease on them. The last battery was the original. Would it help if I applied some grease??

Ah that's slightly different, if the battery is in the boot it is possible to have an appreciable volts drop along the long cable, the Omega battery is within a couple of feet of where it has to go to.

I would still go by KW's guide and expect the alternator output into a fully charged battery, say after a long run to be up in the 13.5V region at least. Check where the battery earth goes to, if it bolts straight to the body, make sure its a good clean contact. I've never used grease on terminals, if the battery and terminal surfaces are fairly clean ( sandpaper ) before bolting together they tend to stay OK.

Ken

[Kevin Wood]

First thing to check is for dodgy connections and decent drive to the alternator. Quite how it "couldn't possibly" be that, I don't know. The alternator is the source, and there's a bit of wire connecting it to the battery, where you're measuring.

Yes, 13.5v is a bit low, and it's worrying that KF's meter read even lower (perhaps they have "specially calibrated" ones).. If it picks up to 14 - 14.5V or so without load I wouldn't worry too much, but I suspect the fact that it went flat is indicative of a problem somewhere.

They have failed to diagnose the problem and picked the "fix" that would give them the greatest profit, knowing that if they happen to find a loose connection or corroded terminal while changing the alternator, they'll fix it and you'll be none the wiser.

£317 to change an alternator sounds steep to me.

[Kevin Wood]

Just to add, it might be worth measuring the volts at the alternator output.

[smithpa7]

Thanks Ken and Kevin, I have checked all the connections I can in the load bay, they all appear to be tight. I have tightened them a little bit.
The battery is in a fully charged state, so I ran the full load test again, my digital meter was showing 13.9v, i think this is a good sign 
I believe Kwikfit have recently been taken over, maybe the new regime intend to 'screw' the customer??
I now suspect that the battery has slowly ran down over the last couple of weeks. SWMBO does leave everything running even when it is not required
I think I will use the car as normal and carry the jump leads just in case. I suspect it may no longer be a problem.
Thanks Guys

[Marks DTM Calib]

As for the slipping belt question, yes you were wrong as you would hear it due to the very obvious squealing noise 

On the remote battery setups I would expect a lower voltage on full load but, the price quoted is not great by any means. The fundamental test is, is the battery voltage higher with the engine running than with it stopped, if yes than the alternator is doing 'something'.

Remember also that a modern car with full load can consume 100A which is pretty much the full alternator output so the charge voltage will drop.

[Marks DTM Calib]

Thanks Ken and Kevin, I have checked all the connections I can in the load bay, they all appear to be tight. I have tightened them a little bit.
The battery is in a fully charged state, so I ran the full load test again, my digital meter was showing 13.9v, i think this is a good sign 
I believe Kwikfit have recently been taken over, maybe the new regime intend to 'screw' the customer??
I now suspect that the battery has slowly ran down over the last couple of weeks. SWMBO does leave everything running even when it is not required
I think I will use the car as normal and carry the jump leads just in case. I suspect it may no longer be a problem.
Thanks Guys

No, thats been the approach for the last 15+ years 

[TheBoy]

I reckon its all the short journeys, esp this time of year, not allowing the battery time to recharge after starting...

[I_want_an_Omega]

I reckon its all the short journeys, esp this time of year, not allowing the battery time to recharge after starting...

I agree. Some years ago I "overloaded" the boot of my Cav GSi by shoving too much stuff in. Turned out I damaged the switch for the boot light meaning it was on all the time. Was fine overnight but would always need to be jump started on a sunday if not used on saturday! So, probably just taking it for a 10  mile run once a week would probably be enough to keep all in check rather than the very short stop/start trips. SWMBO used to do a 4 mile trip to work for many years and never used her car at the weekend - all was fine, so its that extra few miles that can help recharge the battery.

[feeutfo]

Vx do an exchange sevice on alternators, or they did a few years ago. They give a large chunk of cash back when you return the old one... IF thats your problem.
If its the battery, Gm items are very reasonable on tc, also have a 3 year warranty, and i'll bet they are conciderably more reliable than the crap kwick fit and Halfords sell.

If only ever used Kwickfitup, how do you know they are competitive...? ...or not?
Sorry but they prey on the unwarey imo!