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[albitz]

Fair point Bruce,but that is yet another layer of govt. beauracracy. Imo we need a lot less of that rather  than more of it.
British parliament for the British nation. Its the only way imo. Served us reasonably well for centuries until those philistine,British hating, Nu Liebore shites breaked around with it.

[hotel21]

I would also like someone to try to explain to me how its fair/just/ reasonable that Scottish MP,s sit in Westminster and vote on issues such as university fees in England (and many other less obvious issues), when they have no possible consequences in their own constituencies as they operate under a different set of laws.

As said already, they sit in the UK Parliament.  That the Scots, Welsh and Irish have their own assemblies and members is a moot point.  What England needs is a similar setup so that MEP's (thats members of the English parliament, not Euro) sit in an English parliament which would preclude the assembled Celts....

The last thing England needs is to spend untold millions on another tier of government filled with no-marks!! 

In that case, why moan about others??   

[hotel21]

Fair point Bruce,but that is yet another layer of govt. beauracracy. Imo we need a lot less of that rather  than more of it.
British parliament for the British nation. Its the only way imo. Served us reasonably well for centuries until those philistine,British hating, Nu Liebore shites breaked around with it.

There is not too much of that I find fault with, TBH, but there has to be some method of administering the individual component countries in matters which apply specifically to them and are of no interest to the Great and the Good at Westminster?

[Sir Tigger KC]

I'm not moaning about that H! 

One solution however and would sort out another constitutional mess left by Labour (The House of Lords), would be to change to a federal system.  Thus, the House of Commons would become the English Parliament.  The Welsh and Northern Ireland Assemblies would become full Parliaments.

All four countries would raise their own revenue and spend it how they please in terms of Education, Health, Transport, Arts, Trade and Industry etc.  The House of Lords would become The British Parliament/Senate and would oversee the whole sheebang as well as having responsibility for Defence, Foriegn Affairs etc 

Oh and all four countries would achieve independance by ceding from the EU!!! 

[albitz]

That sounds like a bad idea tbh Tigger,but nowhere near as bad an idea as the utter shambles we have at present.
I have nothing against Scotland btw,apart from the fact that they gave as the omnishambles known as Gordon Brown.
Whatever the rest of the UK inflicted on the poor Scots in the past,they had their vengeance and then some when they sent that unhinged idiot down to Londinium.

[hotel21]

The 'Constitutional mess' you refer to cannot simply be laid low at Labours door, much as some would like. 

Successive incarnations of those shadow lurkers of assorted hues, persuasions and pervertions who deem themselves to be public representatives have milked the public purse such that a whole social class has pupated, completely estranged from the lower/middle/upper class standards of old, into a skanky moth that has no use whatsoever to the rest of the world...

[Sir Tigger KC]

The 'Constitutional mess' you refer to cannot simply be laid low at Labours door, much as some would like. 

Successive incarnations of those shadow lurkers of assorted hues, persuasions and pervertions who deem themselves to be public representatives have milked the public purse such that a whole social class has pupated, completely estranged from the lower/middle/upper class standards of old, into a skanky moth that has no use whatsoever to the rest of the world...

As I said H... Labour!! Although they pupated into New Labour... 

[hotel21]

The 'Constitutional mess' you refer to cannot simply be laid low at Labours door, much as some would like. 

Successive incarnations of those shadow lurkers of assorted hues, persuasions and pervertions who deem themselves to be public representatives have milked the public purse such that a whole social class has pupated, completely estranged from the lower/middle/upper class standards of old, into a skanky moth that has no use whatsoever to the rest of the world...

As I said H... Labour!! Although they pupated into New Labour... 

My point is that it was not just Labour - new old or otherwise - there were assorted hues and persuasions of Labour, Conservative, Liberal, Communist, Socialist, Fascist, Nationalists, Greens, Whigs, Democrats etc etc etc.....  All individual straws that have been trampled and paddled in the muckpool that has hardened into that pigpen edifice that is 'Parliament'.....   

[05omegav6]

Fresh bannock and some rhubarb jam anyone  Presumably, were Scotland to become fully independent, the Northern Isles would revert back to Denmark

As unfortunate as it may be, as long as politics are the guiding force behind the descision making processes, every aspect of our lives will be a series of compromises that will undoubtably benefit someone else.

Let the Civil Service run the UK in the UKs' best interest, and let us all vote for the face we would like to see on telly telling us what the Civil Service are doing. That way we could be satisfied that the systems are being run effectively, without any political blocks/disparity ruining effective government

[Dishevelled Den]

//................There is not too much of that I find fault with, TBH, but there has to be some method of administering the individual component countries in matters which apply specifically to them and are of no interest to the Great and the Good at Westminster?

The 'Constitutional mess' you refer to cannot simply be laid low at Labours door, much as some would like. 

Successive incarnations of those shadow lurkers of assorted hues, persuasions and pervertions who deem themselves to be public representatives have milked the public purse such that a whole social class has pupated, completely estranged from the lower/middle/upper class standards of old, into a skanky moth that has no use whatsoever to the rest of the world...

Yes, this is why I referred to the dross at Westminster being difficult enough to deal with - however when we consider the tendency many of those in the regions have to grab as much for themselves (not unnaturally) it can suggested that this may have an overall effect on the strategic interests of the country as a whole and create a sense of misplaced 'nationhood' in many of its citizens.

The example of localised power (as it presently stands) being exhibited by many councils up and down the land should be example enough of how that power can be corrupted in such a way as to favour the few rather than the many.

In regional assemblies – especially where the ability to run a local financial package may well exist at a future point (tax raising and so on) – the possibility for an abuse of power, or the unprofessional, incapable or inefficient practice of it, substantially raises the likelihood that the people subject to the decisions made by that assembly will not be well done by.

In a lot of cases I don’t see the quality of leadership available at the moment or, indeed, the qualities necessary in many of those who purport to be public representatives concerned with the welfare of their citizens to provide honest, capable and meaningful government.

Government in this nation as a whole has lost its way and the shift of power to the regions in the way being suggested will, in my view at least, ensure that the break-up of the United Kingdom (short form) will be sealed - with all the possibilities for difficulty that this unwelcome development may hold for the future.

Westminster needs to be sorted out first and foremost.  Our public representatives working there must act in the interests of the citizens of the country as a whole and beyond all else, we all of us should take the notion of allegiance to the United Kingdom to heart and be more concerned with the many rather than the few.

[Richie London]

I think we should have the referendum not Scotland. to vote if we want them to be part of England.

[hotel21]

I think we should have the referendum not Scotland. to vote if we want them to be part of England.

You want to rethink that a little bit Ritchie?  Perhaps substitute UK or GB in place of England??

[Richie London]

I think we should have the referendum not Scotland. to vote if we want them to be part of England.

You want to rethink that a little bit Ritchie?  Perhaps substitute UK or GB in place of England??

Your right there H. English are well out numbered. it don't bother me what happens. its all politics and nothing more. who gets control of what.  I've a few good mates in Scotland so that won't change whatever happens

[Marks DTM Calib]

We will never see a real answer to any of these debates unless the 'split' happens.

Clearly there is a huge overhead associated with foreign office outposts, potential EU membership, border management etc etc etc.

I would not want to see any split but I also think these devolved parliaments are a HUGE waist of resources which were only put in place to win votes and favour.

History is exactly that, something from the past and in reality has no bearing on this (unless a Zimbabwe type approach is taken).

[Dishevelled Den]

Clearly there is a huge overhead associated with foreign office outposts, potential EU membership, border management etc etc etc.

I would not want to see any split but I also think these devolved parliaments are a HUGE waist of resources which were only put in place to win votes and favour.

History is exactly that, something from the past and in reality has no bearing on this (unless a Zimbabwe type approach is taken).

Clearly there is a huge overhead associated with foreign office outposts, potential EU membership, border management etc etc etc.

Yes especially to the people of those devolved regions - should that cost have to be borne by them alone and not by a common exchequer.


I would not want to see any split but I also think these devolved parliaments are a HUGE waist of resources which were only put in place to win votes and favour.

I certainly see validity in that suggestion.


History is exactly that, something from the past and in reality has no bearing on this

While history should never be ignored for practical and strategic reasons, it can indeed be indulgent (and counter-productive) to continually dwell in the past.


Zimbabwe type approach is taken

In the unlikely event of that happening many of those who would be subject to the aftermath of such an event would perhaps think twice about the wisdom of it.