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[feeutfo]

You DO have ball joint play. There's no may about it.

And as said several times. Those with means to refurb won't have an issue.

Depends who's asking the question, as to what wb's to fit.

So if you had no means to refurb what would you do...?

[TheBoy]

So if you had no means to refurb what would you do...?

On a 183k car, I wouldn't fit *any* wishbone as-is. I would defo change the fronts for polys.

The rest, I'd stated
If my wishbones were pattern, I'd probably go quality, eg Lemforder, poly the front immediately, and look to rebush the rear on failure, using a GM bush

[TheBoy]

As for refurbing balljoint, that looks to be an easy task - drill old off, bolt new on.

[feeutfo]

So pollys don't count as refurbing?

[TheBoy]

So pollys don't count as refurbing?

Factoring the geo costs, why piss around?

[feeutfo]

So pollys don't count as refurbing?

Factoring the geo costs, why piss around?

For more experienced members I fully agree. But as said this thread this thread isn't for experienced members who have the confidence and means to cut bits off and bolt/press bits back on. Ie no refurbing for them. I agree polly is advantageous. But fitting polly is refurbing to my mind surely! No?

As I understand it, it took Colin most of the day to fit his cheepy wishbones, and tbh iirc it took a similar amount of time the first time I tackled the job as well. It's not viable to fit polly/refurb in a day under such circumstances.

I dunno. Maybe I'm not explaining this clearly enough?

[TheBoy]

So pollys don't count as refurbing?

Factoring the geo costs, why piss around?

For more experienced members I fully agree. But as said this thread this thread isn't for experienced members who have the confidence and means to cut bits off and bolt/press bits back on. Ie no refurbing for them. I agree polly is advantageous. But fitting polly is refurbing to my mind surely! No?

As I understand it, it took Colin most of the day to fit his cheepy wishbones, and tbh iirc it took a similar amount of time the first time I tackled the job as well. It's not viable to fit polly/refurb in a day under such circumstances.

I dunno. Maybe I'm not explaining this clearly enough?

Poly the new ones the day before then

[aaronjb]

I dunno. Maybe I'm not explaining this clearly enough?

I think you're explaining it clearly, but you may well be flogging the proverbial dead donkey at this point

If nobody is giving an alternative to refurbing then ... perhaps there is no alternative? Either that or if you've discounted all the aftermarket brands your are forced to fit GM originals at enormous cost.

[TheBoy]

If you are prepared to live with it for a year on original bushes, then refurb (or refurb the old ones you take off, if they are worth refurbing), I'd probably see sense in slapping on £40-a-pair egay shite, hoping it will last the year, then refit the refurbed, rebushed ones.  Not that I would probably do that myself, as explained.

[Elite Pete]

Surely its best to go the whole hog from the start. If you consider what a suspension set up at WIM and possibly a couple of badly worn tyres cost

[Kevin Wood]

As for GM originals, I wouldn't mind betting that, as with exhausts, they are no longer sourcing their own original equipment parts but that you'll get the same pattern parts at an inflated price.

Clearly this example was a shockingly bad quality part with a defect that caused immediate failure.

Probability of getting a part with such a defect from each manufacturer? Well, it's the only one we've seen, so not enough data to be sure. Maybe the probability would have been less with a Lemforder part, maybe not. Gut feeling says that, unlike pattern cam cover gaskets, for example, cheap wishbones aren't notorious for such very early failures, so Colin has been extremely unlucky.

Now, longer term durability of the bushes should immediate failure not occur is another matter, and we've seen good and bad from both Lemforder and nonames there, IMHO.

FWIW, changing to poly front bushes from standard bushes only required a toe adjustment on my car, so no need to go for a full monty geometry setup if it was known to be good beforehand, IMHO.

[feeutfo]

Well this it, finally, in that from what I've seen no names have historically been far more likely to fail in the first year than lemforders. To imply the average life of both is remotely similar... Well, makes no sense to me I have to say.

Ok, there will be the odd early failure of Lemforders of up to a year. Two years even.
And some will have no names that last more than a year. A cross over so to speak. Although there remains a question on when the failure gets noticed perhaps.
There is a two year warranty On parts from Lemforder, although just pollying there and then makes more sense to those that are confident enough to do so should the front bush fail. I get the pollying refurb bit, I do, makes perfect sense.

But the pollying aspect makes it all the more important for less confident owners to fit the longer lasting wishbones in the first place. If they cant refurb( which includes fitting polly) they will be left with buggered bushes earlier anyway and no recourse but to replace wishbones complete again.   !

It IS worth paying for Lemforder for greater average bush life if an owner does not have refurb(which includes polly) as an option.

In fact given rear bush life there's a case for lemforder on rear bushes alone to avoid removing the wishbone for pollying for more confident members. IMO.


We need to see other members positions also... Not everyone is handy at spannering/wishbone twerling as senior members on here. No disrespect to Colin, but it's a learning curve, and he had a go fair play to him. A learning curve that not everyone can see to the end, or even wants or has time to.

Add in ball joint life and quality and there's more to it than £50. Much more.

[feeutfo]

Bah, that last was way longer than I intended.

[Kevin Wood]

To imply the average life of both is remotely similar... Well, makes no sense to me I have to say.

Maybe you're right. Maybe you've been keeping a more keen eye on who's fitting what and what their experiences have been. I've heard of Lemforders that have had a disappointing life and nonames that have been fine, and vice versa, and I can't really tell the wood from the trees as far as where the evidence points.

Contrast that with experiences that have been shared on the forum in other areas - e.g. cam cover gaskets, and the message is more clear, because everybody who fits pattern parts is back cursing them in a month, without exception.

As you say, though, by offering a 2 year warranty, at least with Lemforders the financial blow of an early failure ought to be softened somewhat (against a higher purchase price, though).

[Marks DTM Calib]

The correct answer has to be to offer accurate advice e.g.

Lemforders, greater cost but potentialy better quality.

Cheapo's, lower cost but potentialy a slightly greater risk of early failure.

This is a clear case of where its upto the op to decide as there is no clear guaranteed benefits with the greater cost.

Sad fact is though, we still need to advise that the front bushes are polyed on both!