Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Kate on 25 January 2013, 17:04:12
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I was turning right and the traffic was very congested and moving at a snails pace. A van diver slowed to let me out so I moved forward across the left hand lane.
I then looked right to see if it was was safe to go which it was. I then heard a knock and looked forward to see this guy on a motorbike tippling over. He had ridden forward on the wrong side of the road.
We exchanged details but he tried to blame me. I said it was his fault as he was overtaking on the wrong side of the road and I couldn't possibly have seen him coming.
When I got home he rang me and asked if I would pay for his broken indicator lens and dodgey brake lever. I said no as it was his fault. I explained that I would go through the insurance and defend myself and claim for a new bumper and for my friends injured neck as she hurt it when I braked.
He suddenly changed his attitude and said he didn't want to go through insurance and almost begged me not to either. I agreed.
I have only just changed my bumper last week! ;D
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Oooh :o that not good.
I would mention it to your insurers just to cover yourself :-\ easier than trying to explain why you hadn't if he changes his mind... :)
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Oooh :o that not good.
I would mention it to your insurers just to cover yourself :-\ easier than trying to explain why you hadn't if he changes his mind... :)
Good chance if you mention it, they will log it as a claim, even if you dont claim.
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Is it compulsory to tell insurers?
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Witnesses ??? CCTV ??? just in case.
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possibly just tell police so its down on record :-\
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Oooh :o that not good.
I would mention it to your insurers just to cover yourself :-\ easier than trying to explain why you hadn't if he changes his mind... :)
Good chance if you mention it, they will log it as a claim, even if you dont claim.
True :'( but surely better than them cancelling and refusing to cover if they found out elsewhere :-\
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Hmm public forum! change the title Kate,to motorcyclist drove into me,
as it stands title says you hit him,!!admission of guilt???
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claim for a new bumper and for my friends injured neck as she hurt it when I braked.
Really????
From 'Just-Starting-Off' Speeds?
Not doubting you, Kate, but that seems very much like someone's after a bit of whipcash ;D :y
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Hmm public forum! change the title Kate,to motorcyclist drove into me,
as it stands title says you hit him,!!admission of guilt???
Yes, a very good point :y :y
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He suddenly changed his attitude and said he didn't want to go through insurance and almost begged me not to either.
I agreed.
You have to ask - why is he so keen not to go through insurance?
It may just be that he doesn't think he has a chance and doesn't want to lose his no claims - but if he's that desperate not to consult insurers, you have to question whether he actually has insurance, is a disqual driver, or has other things to hide...
I personally wouldn't agree to someone who's so desperate not to involve insurance companies, especially for an accident of such severity that someone was knocked off in a car-vs-motorcycle, to the extent even someone in the car got 'neck injuries'
The law's requirement for an RTC with no serious injuries is that you swap details. Which you have - so you've met that obligation. BUT I would still contact your local plod and get an incident raised. They will, when they raise this incident, do PNC checks etc on both vehicles for their logs - and if the chap indeed doesn't have insurance etc then it would be followed up.
The terms and conditions of your insurance will most likely say that you need to contact them and inform them of the collision, EVEN if you're not claiming. If the other party accepts liability (which it sounds like he won't) then you do have the option to deal directly with his insurers to recover any losses or injuries, however usually you must still tell your own insurance company that you're doing this.
Hope this helps.
I understand these things happen... but if liability is disputed questions will be raised such as did you do your blindspot checks, were you indicating, were your indicators working, was the M/Cyclist wearing visible clothing, etc...
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Oooh :o that not good.
I would mention it to your insurers just to cover yourself :-\ easier than trying to explain why you hadn't if he changes his mind... :)
Downside is that your insurers may well load your premium next year, as you were 'involved' in an accident, regardless of who's fault or whether a claim was made. >:(
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Oooh :o that not good.
I would mention it to your insurers just to cover yourself :-\ easier than trying to explain why you hadn't if he changes his mind... :)
Downside is that your insurers may well load your premium next year, as you were 'involved' in an accident, regardless of who's fault or whether a claim was made. >:(
True.. but thankfully not always. I had two non-fault collisions last year :-[ and I wasn't penalised at renewal :y
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A police officer was walking by at the time and he told us to swap details that's all as no-one was hurt.
I think my friend in the car already had a sore neck and was just having a moan tbh.
This was a 1 mph accident.
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A police officer was walking by at the time and he told us to swap details that's all as no-one was hurt.
I think my friend in the car already had a sore neck and was just having a moan tbh.
This was a 1 mph accident.
Was he on-duty? did you get the coppers details? Did he take any from you?
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A police officer was walking by at the time and he told us to swap details that's all as no-one was hurt.
I think my friend in the car already had a sore neck and was just having a moan tbh.
This was a 1 mph accident.
Was he on-duty? did you get the coppers details? Did he take any from you?
Yes he was on duty but he didn't seem bothered. He has probably seen millions of accidents round here.
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I forgot to mention that the motorcyclist couldn't remember who he was insured with.
Maybe it was a friend's bike?
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I forgot to mention that the motorcyclist couldn't remember who he was insured with.
Maybe it was a friend's bike?
I'm not sure who my bike's insured with either ........ but it's definitely not a mate's bike ::)
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I forgot to mention that the motorcyclist couldn't remember who he was insured with.
Maybe it was a friend's bike?
sounds dodgy. inform your insurer
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I was very nearly taken out while going past a line of queueing vehicles when the woman I was alongside decided that she knew a short cut & turned right ....... I had to turn right with her - that was after she'd hit my bike. Battle scar is still on my crank case.
Surely it was up to you to look for moving traffic from your left ...... no rules to say that as a motorcyclist you can't drive down a line of stationary traffic.
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It was a very narrow road so he had to ride on the wrong side.
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Muppet plod should have at least done a couple of PNC checks whilst he was there, just to prove both parties insured, taxed & MOT'd. Also DL checks to make sure both parties have one which is present & correct. I would have if I was there, just to make complying with the Sect. 170 easier so there's no surprises later on when you phone the insurers and they say 'nope not insured with us' >:(
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Bet he's not insured Kate - normal reason not to involve insurers :(
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Yes I think he mustn't have been insured.
He was on a really big chunky Triumph bike. I guess 1000cc. I reckon he probably drove at least 100m on the wrong side of the road. It's very dangerous in my opinion.
It happens all the time here though.
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I'd advise leaving it there. At the end of the day, you drove into the bike. From how you describe things in your original post it appears you proceded to pull away in one direction, whilst looking in another.
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It seems like bikers can do whatever they please down here in London.
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I'd advise leaving it there. At the end of the day, you drove into the bike. From how you describe things in your original post it appears you proceded to pull away in one direction, whilst looking in another.
No that's not what happened.
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I'd advise leaving it there. At the end of the day, you drove into the bike. From how you describe things in your original post it appears you proceded to pull away in one direction, whilst looking in another.
I'd agree. If he's not legal he won't raise his head above the parapet and I reckon the best you could hope for would be a knock for knock and increased premiums for a few years.
I had an uninsured driver hit me once, reported it to the Police, my insurance company, etc. and they couldn't have cared less. >:(
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I had an uninsured driver hit me once, reported it to the Police, my insurance company, etc. and they couldn't have cared less.
That's very poor Kevin, I've just dealt with one recently and got another 3 on the go. HATE uninsured drivers >:( >:( >:(
Some coppers just can't be arsed with the paperwork, its only a quick HORT/1 then enquiries with the insurance company, they have to give you the info via a statement, then just a quick summons file to court.
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Sorry Kate, technically its your fault. You have to do everything in your power to avoid any other vehicle when you are entering another road. If he is illegal, you might get away with it. :(
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A police officer was walking by at the time and he told us to swap details that's all as no-one was hurt.
I think my friend in the car already had a sore neck and was just having a moan tbh.
This was a 1 mph accident.
She had a prior problem with her neck, if she's getting pain from braking alone.
Personally, unless you want to claim, I wouldn't report it to an insurer. They'll put your premium up regardless of the other party claiming.
Of they do claim, deal with it then.
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Muppet plod should have at least done a couple of PNC checks whilst he was there, just to prove both parties insured, taxed & MOT'd. Also DL checks to make sure both parties have one which is present & correct. I would have if I was there, just to make complying with the Sect. 170 easier so there's no surprises later on when you phone the insurers and they say 'nope not insured with us' >:(
Indeed. Even easier had the bobby made the checks and called the MIB at the time! More than likely would have been a s165 seizure too :)
I totally hear what you say. In fairness, I agree most response/shift bobbies are over-run with "recordable crimes" and are blatting from job to job... but you're absolutely right in that many don't have a clue (or want to know) how straightforward a simple traffic summons is.
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Well I hope this stands as a warning to us all.
You pull up to a packed main road in London. You want to turn right. A van driver lets you out so you edge forward in front of him. You look left to see if you can continue your right turn. You have a two second gap. You start to proceed.
BANG!! A biker overtaking everything on your right has driven in front of you on the wrong side of the road. You touch him with your front bumper. He tipples away from you.
IDIOT WOMAN DRIVER! :o
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Kate the comments here are nothing to do with gender.
When cycling I overtake stationary traffic on the right, it's a lot safer than cycling on the inside.
Whether you are travelling on the left or right hand side of the road when you cross the line to turn right or overtake you have to give way to anything already there, its the same as changing lanes on the motorway.
That said in this situation the motorcyclist should have read the road better. He should have seen your indicators, the van stopping and letting you out, realised he may have been in your blind spot and reacted accordingly. It does seem that he is lacking insurance so you may have got away with it. If this is the case he is being very necky asking you to replace parts like that....
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.... He should have seen your indicators, ....
HTF do you see the indicators of a vehicle turning right when you're approaching its near side ........ you'd have to be Superman & have X-Ray vision ;)
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.... He should have seen your indicators, ....
HTF do you see the indicators of a vehicle turning right when you're approaching its near side ........ you'd have to be Superman & have X-Ray vision ;)
I read it that he was approaching from the right :-\
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.... He should have seen your indicators, ....
HTF do you see the indicators of a vehicle turning right when you're approaching its near side ........ you'd have to be Superman & have X-Ray vision ;)
I read it that he was approaching from the right :-\
I thought the bike was overtaking everything on the right
:-\
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If he was over taking the line of traffic on the right there are 3 possible scenarios:
1) You checked in your mirror, signaled, did a check in your door mirror, before turning. The motorcyclist saw you indication and decided to overtake anyway, so 80% motorcyclist fault, 20% yours for not seeing him in mirror checks.
2) Mirror signal turn. At least 60% to 80% your fault, depending upon where the motorcyclist was and how long you signaled before turning as you didn't see him and may well of left him with no where to go.
3) Signal turn. 100% your fault, where you didn't see the motorcyclist and left him with no where to go.
The lesson is to ALWAYS have a final look in your door mirror (it is called a suicide check, where an idiot tries to overtake, while you are signaling right) before turning right. Another tip is always when maneuvering to turn right make sure your front wheels are straight while waiting to turn, so if your car is rear ended you are not pushed into oncoming traffic.
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I've quickly done a basic diagram.
(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo200/maisyhoneybunny/road_zps84cfcb1a.jpg)
I'm in the red car turning right.
The van driver lets me out.
Meanwhile the biker is riding along quickly on the wrong side of the road.
He brakes and stops right in front of me.
I brake but the left hand side of my my bumper touches the bike.
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Based on that diagram - His fault!
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I disagree tbh.Nothing illegal about being on the wrong side of the road to overtake another vehicle (its the only possible way on single lane carriageways) as long as there isnt anything coming from the opposite direction which will have to take avoiding action.
With no offence whatsoever intended to Kate,she shouldnt have assumed no-one would overtake the van,although the biker should also have ridden more defensively for his own safety.
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Nothing illegal in being on the opposite side of the road I'll give you, but if he'd read the hazzard warning triangle a few hundred meters back (if there was one, I assume there was) I'm sure you're taught not to overtake on a junction, especially at speed when you vision is blocked by a big van! And as taught by my instructor 'you've got to be able to stop in a distance you can see to be safe. As he couldn't see how could the overtake on a junction be safe?
Quite a few colleagues have failed their test due to this same scenario as a 'serious' fault.
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I've quickly done a basic diagram.
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Sorry! I thought the bike was coming from your left .....
biker should have been more careful overtaking the van :y
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.... He should have seen your indicators, ....
HTF do you see the indicators of a vehicle turning right when you're approaching its near side ........ you'd have to be Superman & have X-Ray vision ;)
I read it that he was approaching from the right :-\
I thought the bike was overtaking everything on the right
:-\
Sorry Matt ...... ;) I mis-interpreted what happened :y
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You have to be so careful here in London.
When it's busy you can be driving down a narrow road and you suddenly see a motorcyclist coming towards you head on. :o
Then you have to swerve into the gutter to avoid a head on collision. It drives me mad. >:(
It's worse when it's a car. They really don't give a f*** down here.
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Nothing illegal in being on the opposite side of the road I'll give you, but if he'd read the hazzard warning triangle a few hundred meters back (if there was one, I assume there was) I'm sure you're taught not to overtake on a junction, especially at speed when you vision is blocked by a big van! And as taught by my instructor 'you've got to be able to stop in a distance you can see to be safe. As he couldn't see how could the overtake on a junction be safe?
Quite a few colleagues have failed their test due to this same scenario as a 'serious' fault.
I agree, his fault.
Sorry Kate, I misunderstood from your description what had happened.
As they say a picture is worth a 1000 words. :y :y :y
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Urm.
you were pulling out of a minor road onto a major road,the motor cyclest was performing a perfectly legal passing of stationary traffic,
you pulled out in front of him,as it is your responsibility to join the major road safely,if you cannot,or your view is obstructed,proceed with caution,
classic due care and attention.
Thats the devils advocate for you.
so dont tell the insurance company.
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Still your fault technically, but the biker should have known better than to put him/her self in that postition. You could have been a child running across the road, or someone pushing a child in a baby-buggy etc.
The biker couldn't see the road ahead over the van, so assuming it is not really the best practice to ride with ones eyes closed, one should also proceed with caution when one cannot see.
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Highway code rule 167:
Overtaking
167
DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example
approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road
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Highway code rule 167:
Overtaking
167
DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example
approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road
Don't confuse 'The Highway Code' with 'The Road Traffic Act'. The Highway Code itself is not law, but having said that, any action that is seen to fail following the Highway Code might be used as evidence of negligence of a driver if any accident occurs.
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Sorry Kate your responsibility to proceed with caution and make sure road is clear :(
However in any accident the other party is not completely blameless - 15% down to him, 85% to you.
Still say the biker is an uninsured driver though
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I've only just seen this. If the rider was male, and you are obviously female, it's got to be your fault. Next case.
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Sorry Kate your responsibility to proceed with caution and make sure road is clear :(
However in any accident the other party is not completely blameless - 15% down to him, 85% to you.
Still say the biker is an uninsured driver though
Can I have 80% please? ;D ;D ;D
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I've only just seen this. If the rider was male, and you are obviously female, it's got to be your fault. Next case.
Ok I'll have 100%. ;D ;D ;D
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Cor you've got everyone in a right old lather Kate! :) I reckon it's knock for knock.... ::) ;)
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Cor you've got everyone in a right old lather Kate! :) I reckon it's knock for knock.... ::) ;)
Does that mean I'm down to 50%? ;D
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Fortunately it was a very minor knock that your unlikely to hear anythiing more about.Important question is - hows that bumper ? :D
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Fortunately it was a very minor knock that your unlikely to hear anythiing more about.Important question is - hows that bumper ? :D
Because Albs just happens to have one..........
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Fortunately it was a very minor knock that your unlikely to hear anythiing more about.Important question is - hows that bumper ? :D
Because Albs just happens to have one..........
That's the one that hit the bike! I bought it off him recently! ;D
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Nope - until a couple of weeks ago Albs did have that one. ;D
Beat me too it. ::)
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Nope - until a couple of weeks ago Albs did have that one. ;D
Beat me too it. ::)
Well.....if you're going to sell to women, you need to have a good stock.
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;D ;D
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Bumper just needs a bit paint.
Has anyone got a job lot of bumpers for sale? ;D
I think I might be needing them! ;D
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Picture of the damaged bumper. ;D
(http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo200/maisyhoneybunny/omega_zpsd8afd1a6.jpg)
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Kate if the insurance companies get involved this will go 50-50. He was over taking you were exiting a side road.
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not being funny the biker probably thought - whats the point of hassle for £20/30 worth of damage to his bike when probably got to pay a fair bit in excess :y
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The point, to my mind, is that if you were driving a car, and were behind the white van, would YOU overtake?
No, because your vision of the road ahead is obscured by the van.
I'm afraid that too many bikers think that, because they are much narrower than a car and because they have rapid acceleration, such rules do not apply to them.
Probably why so many are pushing up the daisies. ::) ::)
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not being funny the biker probably thought - whats the point of hassle for £20/30 worth of damage to his bike when probably got to pay a fair bit in excess :y
If it went to an insurance claim, O/E replacement items would be on average £45 for an indicator and £40 for a brake lever. If it was a faired bike, a side panel with even minor scrapes would be replaced and could easily be £200.
The price of 'Genuine O/E' motorcycle parts is extortionate.
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as a biker. and a Tesco Lorry driver.
You are well within your right to claim for this idiot.
Cover yourself at all costs as their are many idiot out their that want something for nothing.
I would have gone through with the claim but your within you right to do as you wish.
Always cover your ar**....is what i have learnt over the years plus my present job..
Plus i have learnt not to trust the public. always second guess.
I get abused daily and look out for idiot drivers on an hourly basis. ALWAYS cover yourself. Report everything to the police etc..
You can never be too careful.
I was reported for failing to stop at an accident recently....turns out i was no where near the area at the time.....
Jay
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Sorry Kate that diagram is completely different to how I interpreted the scenario. That is 100% the cyclist's fault, no doubt about it.
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Not adding a who was right and who was wrong here, but.....
This is a classic post defining how we all perceive something, be it accidents, laws, simple rules. No-one sees it 100% the same. As was said, a picture is worth a 1000 words, but even so, there is disagreement since its posting.
This is basically why insurance companies work on the 'knock for knock' scenario.
I can understand the job police have with witness statements on anything from accidents to murders.
As an afterthought, I have to go with 'not insured' scenario, based purely on an incident that happened to me. >:(
Sorry Kate, not hijacking......I cannot comment on the accident as I was not there, but the replies have intrigued me (thinking back to my 'best driver' post) :y
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Not adding a who was right and who was wrong here, but.....
This is a classic post defining how we all perceive something, be it accidents, laws, simple rules. No-one sees it 100% the same. As was said, a picture is worth a 1000 words, but even so, there is disagreement since its posting.
This is basically why insurance companies work on the 'knock for knock' scenario.
I can understand the job police have with witness statements on anything from accidents to murders.
As an afterthought, I have to go with 'not insured' scenario, based purely on an incident that happened to me. >:(
Sorry Kate, not hijacking......I cannot comment on the accident as I was not there, but the replies have intrigued me (thinking back to my 'best driver' post) :y
As I said in that post I only see myself as an average driver.
If I was an excellent driver then this wouldn't have happened.
I don't think this accident was all my fault though. I have been driving for 24 years and have never had a crash.
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I don't think this accident was all my fault though. I have been driving for 24 years and have never had a crash.
I think everybody would agree, having seen the diagram. A van stops approaching a junction and you can't see past it so don't know why. Only an idiot would dive round it, especially on a bike.
Having said that, it would be difficult to convince an insurance company that the driver turning into the traffic was not at fault, IMHO, hence my comment that the best you'd get is a knock for knock.
A mate of mine had a similar incident. He was turning right out of a side road and the approaching traffic to his right let him out. He stuck his nose out enough to see what was approaching from the left, stopped, seeing approaching traffic, and the guy approaching drove straight into his left wing, despite having plenty of room to pass. Just wasn't paying attention. Despite the fact that he was stopped at the time, and only left 6 inches of car over the line, it was determined to be his fault.
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I don't think anyone thinks it's all your fault.
Your error was assuming nothing would be coming past that van, and proceeding to move away whilst looking in the direction the traffic 'should' be approaching and not in the direction you were moving.
The biker was at fault for not being ready for something he could not see that may lay ahead beyond the van.
The van driver should also have kept his wits about him and been ready to warn you, or whatever was approaching in either direction. If anything, the van driver created the situation. An arm out of his side window motioning 'slow down' would have alerted the biker that there was something ahead.
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I think the post by Turk sums it up rather well :y
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I think the post by Turk sums it up rather well :y
+1. :y
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Thanks for all the supportive comments. I really appreciate it and that's why I like the oof so much. :y :-* :-* :-*
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Thanks for all the supportive comments. I really appreciate it and that's why I like the oof so much. :y :-* :-* :-*
You weren't driving a truck in China the other day were you ? ::) ;D
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;D ;D ;D
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Thanks for all the supportive comments. I really appreciate it and that's why I like the oof so much. :y :-* :-* :-*
You weren't driving a truck in China the other day were you ? ::) ;D
Er, yes how did you know?
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Thanks for all the supportive comments. I really appreciate it and that's why I like the oof so much. :y :-* :-* :-*
You weren't driving a truck in China the other day were you ? ::) ;D
Er, yes how did you know?
I recognised the cornering technique. ;)