Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: cd 2.2 on 30 January 2014, 20:27:52
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I have a 2003 2.2 cd automatic omega, My dad found it and was going to break it for parts for his 2002 2.2 cd but he found that it was firstly Oyster while his is Star Silver 2 and that it was far too good to break as its really solid and mostly rot free.
Now when the car was brought for a massive £200 we already knew that the head gasket had failed (hence the price), the oil is full of water and the exhaust seems to think that the expansion tank is the best route to take lol... The car still runs although very sick with the engine light on constantly.
I'm wondering what the best course of action is as regards repairs, the best quote from a local garage is £560 without the timing belt or water pump replaced. I would attempt it myself but I have a ruined spine and wouldn't be able to comfortably do the work. I also have no idea if the engine has overheated at any point so would presume that the head will need skimming.
The car has done 116801 miles if that makes any difference to anything and I'm located in chesterfield, Derbyshire if anyone in the club could do it at a more reasonable price.
I would appreciate any advice on what other parts would need replacing at the same time so that I don't get any nasty surprises.
Thanks Graham
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If you're having to pay a garage to do it, it possibly isn't viable. The parts to do the HG itself aren't that bad, but several hours labour will add up I'm afraid.
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wow that was fast ;D
I would consider doing it myself but I have no idea as to what's involved ... I know it's a time consuming job but I have been told a bunch of horror stories about these engines and being awful to work on yourself. It's definitely getting repaired no matter what as I love the way Omega's drive and look so I'm kind of attached lol
Are there any guides on the forum for the 2.2 engine??
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The 2.2 petrol is actually pretty easy to work on. If you've done a HG before, this would present no real surprises.
I'd refurb the head, ie new stem seals etc. As to skimming, I'd check it first.
I don't believe we have a step by step guide (so if you're tempted to do the job, feel free to do a guide ;D)
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It would be a fair investment to shell out £560 and not have the water pump and t-belt replaced, knowing my luck the belt would go the day I got it back after the head work :'(
If you get the head changed how much more do the garage want to replace the belt/tensioner etc? bearing in mind they will have to take the belt off to do the head work, so the labour will be around the same, more time needed to replace the tensioner and water pump etc
I would not be happy to have the head done and still have the original belt on
I hate to suggest the next option as Migs are becoming an endangered species but depending on the parts you could use/ swap over from the donor car to your dads car,wheels, battery etc you could then scrap (Shudder) the donor car complete for what you paid for it or more. I had a Suzuki Liana with HGF taken away this week by a very nice chap with a transporter in exchange for £200
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Pity you couldnt get another engine :-\ did that with my v6-cheaper than parts to fix it :D made old one into coffee table then sold it Bonus my replacement engine was free after that and £50 in pocket too
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I have done HG's before ... I suppose I have a garage to work in and I can take all the time I need as the car needs a few other minor things as well before I press the old girl back into service fully! If I decide to do the job myself I will be sure to take lots of pictures and try to make a step by step guide for others. I'm guessing that the horror stories I have heard are just that, stories. are the correct torque settings around on here for the head bolts as I'm told thy are xxNm + 90 degrees, +90 degrees, +15 degrees. No one seems to be able to make up their minds as to what the torque settings actually are :D
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Cylinder head torque is 25nm or 18lbf ft :y then angles
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Cylinder head torque is 25nm or 18lbf ft :y then angles
remember its a 2.2 :)
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Torque settings should be broadly the same as the 16valve 2.0 in Haynes :y
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Cylinder head torque is 25nm or 18lbf ft :y then angles
remember its a 2.2 :)
Yes and what
25nm or 18lbf stage 1
stage 2 90 deg
stage 3 90 deg
stage 4 90 deg
stage 5 15 deg
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Cylinder head torque is 25nm or 18lbf ft :y then angles
remember its a 2.2 :)
And Autodata :y :y
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Cylinder head torque is 25nm or 18lbf ft :y then angles
remember its a 2.2 :)
Yes and what
25nm or 18lbf stage 1
stage 2 90 deg
stage 3 90 deg
stage 4 90 deg
stage 5 15 deg
:y
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How about a pm to Darth Loo Knee and/or Elite Pete? Neither are very far from you & I'm sure will be competitive on price but will know what they're doing.
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wow that was fast ;D
I would consider doing it myself but I have no idea as to what's involved ... I know it's a time consuming job but I have been told a bunch of horror stories about these engines and being awful to work on yourself. It's definitely getting repaired no matter what as I love the way Omega's drive and look so I'm kind of attached lol
Are there any guides on the forum for the 2.2 engine??
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=106562.0
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The 2.2 and 2.0 engines are pretty straight-forward for HG repair. Even going steady you can easily do it in a weekend :y
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wow that was fast ;D
I would consider doing it myself but I have no idea as to what's involved ... I know it's a time consuming job but I have been told a bunch of horror stories about these engines and being awful to work on yourself. It's definitely getting repaired no matter what as I love the way Omega's drive and look so I'm kind of attached lol
Are there any guides on the forum for the 2.2 engine??
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=106562.0
Was just about to post that myself, Thanks Rob
When I did this I had not worked on engines for over 30yrs and found it relatively easy (apart from getting the cam belt absolutely right). I was lucky in that I did it at my tame mechanics (old friend) garage and had access to all tools and help.
I have a compacted L3 disc in my back and taking a rest when aggravated didn't strain it and maybe did it some good :o
If you are having probs, post on here or PM Me and I will try and help
Go for it and dont forget to brag on here when complete, like I have just done ::) ;D
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similar problem in your back as me .. I have an l5 s1 disc degeneration and a disc prolapse forward above that.
I made a start on it this evening and got the exhaust manifold off (awkward to get it ut through the gap available), someone has been at it before as the two front studs have been sheared off ... I used a ton of swarfega duck oil and took my time never sheared one (morons).
I took loads of pics as I went doing this and hope to make a step by step guide when I'm done but I'm going to take a month or so doing the work as the pennies are tight lol
I'm expecting to have to have it skimmed and pressure tested as soon as the head is removed and hope it's not cracked as that would be bad, was quoted £28+ VAT for the skim £30+ VAT for the pressure test + whatever it costs to get the 2 studs out that a previous heavy handed spanner monkey broke.
Will keep you all posted as I go with progress and any problems but still have the problem of getting all the mayo gunk out of everything and the best method to do so
Graham
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The studs may have snapped on there own accord without outside assistance,it does happen :-\
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well today I have started to dismantle the inlet side :o omg how complicated ???
The cam cover has sealent instead of a gasket and none of the plugs are visible due to the amount of oil in there lol.
I would definitely say this is a task that the novice should avoid and i'm already fed up of my knees hurting from bending over the drivers wing to get the inlet off haha
It's looking like someone has been in the top end before so i'm kida scared as to what I'm going to find lurking under that head :-\
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Sounds like you can only improve things! :) Good luck!! :y
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Another update on progress for today... The inlet manifold is now totaly stripped down I think. The camshafts are out and the timing belt is off ( it was worryingly loose ), The only documented change I can see was done @ 37k ish by VX stealer on third service stamp. All the things I can see are GM stamped so I'm going to guess this is the only one it's ever had.... 8 years on it's reading 116801 miles. The water pump looks like it's had a leak since forever too so I'm glad to be changing all of this.
Biggest snags so far are the camshaft pulley bolts are waaay tighter than I could manage to undoo so I had to remove them with sprockets attached (left was easy to get out right one is a pig to do). The seals need doing so 2ft breaker bar and spanner is going to be the answer i think. Head bolts OMG tight as as hell so 2ft breaker and T55? for those too I guess.
I will be sure to put pics of what I find when the head is off, oh and the damn manifold has a crack in it (don't they all?) . More updates soon Graham
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Stick at it :y
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Right today has seen the head removed from the engine, The heater bypass valve made this oh so much fun ::)
The head was blown at No-1 oil to compression and maybe water too, No-4 water to compression and has been run on blue antifreeze at some point as the therostat is neon blue stained (when do people ever learn).
There appears to be a major warp on the back edge of the head when checked with a quality straight edge and some of the water channels have above 1mm deep pitting around them, worse at No-4 where the pitting is into the edge of the combustion chamber part. I will be getting the head off to the engineer in the next couple of weeks and see what they can do with it .. at worst I will need to get a new head but that's no big issue as it's the same as the 2.0 (2.0L and 2.2L stamped on the head itself) correct me if I am wrong.
Things to note so far with this job if your going to take it on yourself are:
- If you don't want to hurt yourself getting the head bolts out, Go to Halfords and buy a 2 foot 1/2 inch drive breaker bar and the 1/2 inch drive T55 socket. With this the head bolts come out like they are nothing lol.
- Allow alot of time for the job, If I was in a rush I would say 4 days including the head skim (I'm not in a rush)
- Be prepared to have to buy a new manifold as they seem to crack when the HG fails for some reason :'(
I'm so far having alot of fun doing this job even though I'm working to a slow pace with limited funds, a ruined back and my retarded mistake pulling the injector rail out and dislocating my knee on the bumper :D
This is not the job from hell that I'm endlessly told it is by garages, a car is a car and the miggy is no different. I will upload the head piccys as soon as I can find the camera cable and start to compile a how to guide for getting the head removed as it may help save some cars that don't deserve to be scrapped
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I think the heads are inter changeable but not 100% sure
2.0 Bore & Stroke is 86mm x 86mm giving 1998cc
2.2 Bore & Stroke is 86mm x 94.6mm giving 2198cc
Same bore and longer/shorter stroke usually means heads can be used on different capacity engines as long as the oil ways etc are identical
hth
Here is a wiki link which might help
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Family_II_engine
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Finally today saw the removal of the unfortunately quite warped head but on the + side made me make a rough guide for all to follow!
I will be sure to let you guys know what the machine shop can do with it, if anything :y
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Cheers for the post. My 2.2 is beginning to suffer the same fate, every time I start the engine you would think we have a new pope anyway was contemplating attempting doing the head myself now you have given me a bit more confidence to tackle the job? Will wait until you post some pics. cheers
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Make sure that the combustion chambers are the same volume if swapping 2.0 and 2.2 heads. There's a significant difference in capacity so the combustion chambers need to be a different volume. That may be taken up in the head itself or by dishing the pistons. I'm not familiar enough with that engine to know which. If they aren't the same you run the risk of a very sluggish engine with too low compression or too much compression which will cause knock.
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Make sure that the combustion chambers are the same volume if swapping 2.0 and 2.2 heads. There's a significant difference in capacity so the combustion chambers need to be a different volume. That may be taken up in the head itself or by dishing the pistons. I'm not familiar enough with that engine to know which. If they aren't the same you run the risk of a very sluggish engine with too low compression or too much compression which will cause knock.
Was thinking the same. You can get away with skimming the 2.2 and 2.0 heads which should sort out your warping issue. As long as the head is not cracked you should be fine :y
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http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php?topic=121234.0
done this for people considering the job on their own cars
Raymienets, I know you were interested in pictures to assess the job at hand, hope it helps others on here also :y
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Make sure that the combustion chambers are the same volume if swapping 2.0 and 2.2 heads. There's a significant difference in capacity so the combustion chambers need to be a different volume. That may be taken up in the head itself or by dishing the pistons. I'm not familiar enough with that engine to know which. If they aren't the same you run the risk of a very sluggish engine with too low compression or too much compression which will cause knock.
Exactly the same Kev ;)
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Make sure that the combustion chambers are the same volume if swapping 2.0 and 2.2 heads. There's a significant difference in capacity so the combustion chambers need to be a different volume. That may be taken up in the head itself or by dishing the pistons. I'm not familiar enough with that engine to know which. If they aren't the same you run the risk of a very sluggish engine with too low compression or too much compression which will cause knock.
Exactly the same Kev ;)
So, to be sure, presumably the 2.2 has dished piston crowns?
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Re Head Skimming: Please be aware that Vauxhall say the head cannot be skimmed! ::)
However, I myself & I would imagine many others have found that the 2.0/2.2 head can be skimmed providing the bare minimum of metal is removed to correct mild warping or errosion. If the warping is more than 1mm then you are probably looking at a replacement head tbh :-\
The original head thickness measurement is 134mm from memory so make sure it hasn't been previously skimmed by A.N. Other before attempting to get it skimmed again. I tried a second skim on my 2.2 saloon (minimum removed each time) & bent the valves on first startup despite turning her over by hand twice and feeling/hearing no resistance! :o
Good Luck with it, you'll find it well worth the effort! :y
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Make sure that the combustion chambers are the same volume if swapping 2.0 and 2.2 heads. There's a significant difference in capacity so the combustion chambers need to be a different volume. That may be taken up in the head itself or by dishing the pistons. I'm not familiar enough with that engine to know which. If they aren't the same you run the risk of a very sluggish engine with too low compression or too much compression which will cause knock.
Exactly the same Kev ;)
So, to be sure, presumably the 2.2 has dished piston crowns?
No Kevin, mine are/were flat topped piston heads :y
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right mini update time ...
Head wasn't too bad but has some pitting between water channels, Total removed from head was 16 thousands of an inch.
Nearly reassembled now with only the heater bypass control valve and inlet valves to grind back in and fit!
All seems to be going well atm have a circoli water pump to fit and will be getting a contitech timing kit soon as everything is bolted to the block, hope this thing is going to work when it gets put back together.
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Sounds good. That's 0.4mm removed so I'm confident that won't give you any issues.
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Have to say it puts the valves mighty close to the piston crowns though ... wouldn't recommend more than 0.6mm to be fair, If you went that far I guess valves would be at risk?
All valves now re ground and fitted and test fitted the cams to the head, all looks good so far and I made special care ensuring that the oil ways are all very clean with some carb cleaner spray as I know these l'il buggers block easily :D
Just got to clean the block face now and the egr/heater bypass control thingy ma bob mating surface before fitting a new gasket and re-fitting to the head. Once these jobs are done I'm mighty close to getting her fired up for the first time in nearly a month :y
Just the timing belt kit to buy now but slow and steady will win the race lol
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Woo Hoo, Cylinder head is now on the car and torqued up using these settings :
25nm or 18lbf stage 1
stage 2 90 deg
stage 3 90 deg
stage 4 90 deg
stage 5 15 deg
Have to say it was easier to achieve than I at first thought but still took considerable effort with a 2 ft breaker bar. Did need a friend to give me a lift on with the head as it's bloody heavy assembled when your trying to put it in on your own (and that's with no cams fitted). Just got to put in the cams and tighten the sprockets up fully using a 24 mm spanner to hold the cam still. Fit new timing belt kit as not got the new one yet ... and fit all the important stuff like manifolds and injectors :D :D :D
To me from this point it should be plain sailing but I'm staying optimistic that she will start after a month of standing without breaking something else lol
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Good Man!, as I said earlier it is well worth the effort :y
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wouldn't have tackled this without the support of the forum :y