Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: chrisgixer on 09 December 2014, 23:11:57
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.... And 911 has just hit the fan big time. You have suspects in custody that you think might know stuff. You think there a good chance of further attack.
....bah, you know the story. Personally, I see it as a risk against your people, versus consequences of this coming to light later. A lose lose situation. Damned if you do damned if you don't. I'd take the consequences later I think. :(
Of course, the report , mentions none of this.
Oh, and btw. You don't have a Chrystal ball. What do you do?
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Carry on reading nursery stories to a kindergarten class. Obviously.
What did I win ;D
That was rhetorical btw. Clearly the prize is a yeast infection and a walking, talking, living Tony Blair doll :D
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Feel free to answer the question though..... :)
As title. YOU are Mr President.
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Obviously nobody will though, as it's an impossible situation. ;)
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Torture them until they coughAsk them nicely what they know then act on it, even if it does upset the Saudis/Pakistanis/grass munching welly wearers...*
*delete as applicable...
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Dubya only did what any self respecting Texan would do and given that, you could say he was quite restrained really..... ::) ;D
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Dubya only did what any self respecting Texan would do and given that, you could say he was quite restrained really..... ::) ;D
Run to daddy and cry foul?
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Dubya only did what any self respecting Texan would do and given that, you could say he was quite restrained really..... ::) ;D
Again. Do feel free to answer the question. :)
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I did... I think ::)
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I did... I think ::)
Well that's good of you Al, to answer for everyone.
...oh yes of course, I was forgetting, you ARE the The President. ;D
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Nah, Cem has gone to bed, so I am only manning the phones :y
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Vice President will do.
Or MidaVaaaarsePresydaaaaayn' if you prefer.
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Either, or... ;D
BTW Cem left a note suggesting I shouldn't press the big red button in the top left drawer... any idea what it does? I mean, if I get left and right confuddled, will it matter if I accidently press it?
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Take the TB approach I rekon.
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Take the TB approach I rekon.
Good call... but which one?
a) Not my desk...
or
b)The Dr Pepper Solution (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoR2qr0d3Gc)?
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Much as it hurts to say, I would have done similar.
No high profile Guantanamo Bay, somewhere off radar and then the folk disappear.
It doesn't sit at all well with human rights, civilisation etc etc But what do you do with people who live outside those boundaries quite happily. In the old days the king would just condemn them without trial or banish to somewhere like Oz.
That is what is missing now for returning Islamist etc terrorists
Is the USA now liable for court cases and payouts?
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I don't see what the fuss is about, water boarding is quite fun . . . .
Ah sorry, I meant water skiing
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Rectal feeding? :o :(
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Sadly, good old 'Dubya' was never blessed with much in the way of brains. A retarded goat probably has a higher I.Q.
However, with the twin towers coming down he needed to look like he was in control of the situation......which he wasn't.
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Sadly, good old 'Dubya' was never blessed with anything in the way of brains. A retarded goat has a higher I.Q.
However, with the twin towers coming down he needed to look like he was in control of the situation......which he wasn't.
Credit where it's due, the goat can fend for itself ;D
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.... And 911 has just hit the fan big time. You have suspects in custody that you think might know stuff. You think there a good chance of further attack.
....bah, you know the story. Personally, I see it as a risk against your people, versus consequences of this coming to light later. A lose lose situation. Damned if you do damned if you don't. I'd take the consequences later I think. :(
Of course, the report , mentions none of this.
Oh, and btw. You don't have a Chrystal ball. What do you do?
a few minutes after I'll take a journey.. but before that here are my words.. I have shared lots of stuff about 9/11 which showed it was a setup.. and interestingly many Usa citizens share the same opinion with me.. the question is : was Bush unaware of what his mates and cia had done ?
but looking at this family history, probably knew .. because he took a long path before becoming a president.. and I dont think he only watched the sky ;D
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Regardless of the conditions of the moment, history has always taught us that torture gives you nothing valuable in terms of Intel and only problems in the cold light of day......Studies of numerous historical military conflicts will confirm this to anyone with half a brain.
It is the fear of the unknown which drives the desire to resort to such measures and displays a certain lack of moral courage to concede to that base instinct rather than thinking rationally and taking decisions with an educated, analytical mind.
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.... And 911 has just hit the fan big time. You have suspects in custody that you think might know stuff. You think there a good chance of further attack.
....bah, you know the story. Personally, I see it as a risk against your people, versus consequences of this coming to light later. A lose lose situation. Damned if you do damned if you don't. I'd take the consequences later I think. :(
Of course, the report , mentions none of this.
Oh, and btw. You don't have a Chrystal ball. What do you do?
a few minutes after I'll take a journey.. but before that here are my words.. I have shared lots of stuff about 9/11 which showed it was a setup.. and interestingly many Usa citizens share the same opinion with me.. the question is : was Bush unaware of what his mates and cia had done ?
but looking at this family history, probably knew .. because he took a long path before becoming a president.. and I dont think he only watched the sky ;D
Yes, I think these are the same people who were recently abducted by aliens, before being impregnated with small furry creatures, and then returned to Earth. ::) ::) ::)
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Regardless of the conditions of the moment, history has always taught us that torture gives you nothing valuable in terms of Intel and only problems in the cold light of day......Studies of numerous historical military conflicts will confirm this to anyone with half a brain.
It is the fear of the unknown which drives the desire to resort to such measures and displays a certain lack of moral courage to concede to that base instinct rather than thinking rationally and taking decisions with an educated, analytical mind.
Ah, so we come down to management being "fit for purpose" again. In very general terms of course. Rarely have I encounteted individuals worthy of, well.....leadership, I suppose, even ignoring situations where the shit really has hit the fan.
I can't imagine the pressure these people encounteted during the events of 911.
But how far to take this moral fibre? Much as I feel he deserved it, how does the report on torture balance with the shooting, or even murder, of OBL? Don't get me wrong, nobody is complaining, but that can't really be justified either, can it? Rush the house, shoot him dead, take the body, identify him. Lob the body over board. Is that legal?
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So that is several dozen sitting on the fence and one who would have done the same.
So what are all you do gooders going to do with returning Islamic Jihadist fundamentalists? Put them in jail for three years, out in 18 months so they can become martyrs and go back?
I think it is high time someone with backbone came up with a solution for stateless people. Oh wait we haven't got anyone.
You have people trying to become worthwhile citizens by passing a test and on the other hand people who clearly are not worthy of British Citizenship. I say take their passport and citizenship off them. maybe I am missing something e.g. forged passports and Id's are two a penny.
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.... And 911 has just hit the fan big time. You have suspects in custody that you think might know stuff. You think there a good chance of further attack.
....bah, you know the story. Personally, I see it as a risk against your people, versus consequences of this coming to light later. A lose lose situation. Damned if you do damned if you don't. I'd take the consequences later I think. :(
Of course, the report , mentions none of this.
Oh, and btw. You don't have a Chrystal ball. What do you do?
As I said to my father who I was visiting on that fateful day, WAR had been declared on the United States of America and if I had been the President I would, after sitting down with all my advisors, order the tracking down and elimination of all those responsible by ANY MEANS.
That is what a leader of the world super power does when attacked and around 3,000 innocent lives are lost on your country's soil. You do what Roosevelt did on the 8th December 1941, declare war, mobilize your military and associated agencies for war. All in defence of the realm.
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.... And 911 has just hit the fan big time. You have suspects in custody that you think might know stuff. You think there a good chance of further attack.
....bah, you know the story. Personally, I see it as a risk against your people, versus consequences of this coming to light later. A lose lose situation. Damned if you do damned if you don't. I'd take the consequences later I think. :(
Of course, the report , mentions none of this.
Oh, and btw. You don't have a Chrystal ball. What do you do?
a few minutes after I'll take a journey.. but before that here are my words.. I have shared lots of stuff about 9/11 which showed it was a setup.. and interestingly many Usa citizens share the same opinion with me.. the question is : was Bush unaware of what his mates and cia had done ?
but looking at this family history, probably knew .. because he took a long path before becoming a president.. and I dont think he only watched the sky ;D
Yes, amazing the number of people who choose to ignore the mountain of evidence in support of that and instead accept the official account. When senior academics resign from highly paid jobs at major universities in order to stand by their principals and say "hold on a minute... laws of physics anyone?" perhaps they shouldn't just be dismissed by armchair politicians and Generals on car forums.
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.... And 911 has just hit the fan big time. You have suspects in custody that you think might know stuff. You think there a good chance of further attack.
....bah, you know the story. Personally, I see it as a risk against your people, versus consequences of this coming to light later. A lose lose situation. Damned if you do damned if you don't. I'd take the consequences later I think. :(
Of course, the report , mentions none of this.
Oh, and btw. You don't have a Chrystal ball. What do you do?
a few minutes after I'll take a journey.. but before that here are my words.. I have shared lots of stuff about 9/11 which showed it was a setup.. and interestingly many Usa citizens share the same opinion with me.. the question is : was Bush unaware of what his mates and cia had done ?
but looking at this family history, probably knew .. because he took a long path before becoming a president.. and I dont think he only watched the sky ;D
Yes, amazing the number of people who choose to ignore the mountain of evidence in support of that and instead accept the official account. When senior academics resign from highly paid jobs at major universities in order to stand by their principals and say "hold on a minute... laws of physics anyone?" perhaps they shouldn't just be dismissed by armchair politicians and Generals on car forums.
Perhaps they shouldn't be accepted by the like either. :)
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What would you do ?
I think Kenny had the right idea :y :y ;D ;D ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xGMWZJlA0QA
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Please explain to me (new to OOF) why '9/11 was a set up.'
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Add a hundred tons of aluminium and jet fuel to a confined steel structure and cover it in dust and office debris, then set light to it...
The aluminium melts and gets hot enough to turn steel into a caramel paste. at this point, the top of the building collapses, causing the entire structure to collapse under its own weight.
Two independent, (from the state and each other), engineers concluded that contrary to the official report the aircraft were largely intact rather than shredded when they entered the towers, and allowing for this they concluded that molten aluminium draining down the vertical structure of the building was enough to incinerate the fireproof membrane and allow the heat to soften the steel. The rest as they say, is history.
Goole aluminium recycling plant explosions if you don't believe it...
Unfortunately, the New York Port Authority, the agency responsible for sorting and disposing of the debris, refused to release so much as an ounce of 9/11 debris for them to test their findings. Make of that what you will.
There have been several very informative, independent documentaries dispelling most of the 9/11 bullshit.
The only questions left unanswered are exactly how much was known prior to the event and why was nothing done. Between Michael Moore, various enquiries and independent reports, the afters have been done to death.
As for CIA torturing people, right or wrong they did what they did, and it was known if ignored by everyone... remember the CIA transit stops at Prestwick a few years ago? This is not news.
The only people who have lost out in the whole debacle are the US. Someone in the CIA or NSA wanted the Patriot Act implemented, and allowing 9/11 to happen was the impetus that was needed.
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Please explain to me (new to OOF) why '9/11 was a set up.'
Oh Jeez. Now you've done it. ;) ;D
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Please explain to me (new to OOF) why '9/11 was a set up.'
It wasn't a set up per se... read my entire post above as to why not... :y
Cem is partial to eating a lot of cheese before bed, and living in Turkey, has limited access to impartial, intelligent information.
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Although, I did see a programme explaining that dumping water from a sprinkler system on molten aluminium is an exceptionally explosive thing to do. Volatile way beyond anything one might conceive of a chemical reaction, unless you're aware of it if course.
I would add I know nothing of smelting or chemistry in relation to this.
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Although, I did see a programme explaining that dumping water from a sprinkler system on molten aluminium is an exceptionally explosive thing to do. Volatile way beyond anything one might conceive of a chemical reaction, unless you're aware of it if course.
I would add I know nothing of smelting or chemistry in relation to this.
It was a very clear cut, no 'dangle berries', scientific explanation as to why the official report into the collapse of the World Trade Centre was inaccurate and incomplete. It also dispelled all the conspiracy nonsense at the same time.
IIRC, the chap whom the documentary was based on, was an ex pat Brit Chemical Engineer or Chemist rather than a builder or architect :-\
It's disappointing that the NYPA were unwilling to release any debris, but I can fully understand why... the Americans are a sentimental bunch when it comes to patriotism. Which itself, makes it such a criminal shame that they had the Patriot Act forced upon then whilst they were blind with grief and rage :'(
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An example of the dangers of molten aluminium....
http://www.recyclingtoday.com/kunshan-zhongrong-fire-china-aluminum-wheels.aspx (http://www.recyclingtoday.com/kunshan-zhongrong-fire-china-aluminum-wheels.aspx) :o
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Please explain to me (new to OOF) why '9/11 was a set up.'
www.911truth.org
Ignore the "conspiracy theory" mainstream programming, or in fact anything that makes it onto mainstream media. This merely strengthens the official account by being so baseless in fact.
In order to find the truth you have to start from a position of neutrality. If you go looking to find in favour of a particular outcome, unsurprisingly you'll normally succeed.
Clues :
- History of steel frame buildings collapsing due to fire previously or since 2001 = zero
- 3 steel frame buildings collapsing in the same day due to "fire" in 1 day in 2001, one of which not even hit by a plane
- Time taken for buildings to "freefall" out of the sky
- If putting a building down onto it's footprint was as simple as starting a fire 2/3 of the way up on one side there'd be no controlled demolition firms...
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Sorry, but that entire site is all bullshit.
edited for clarity.
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Must be true. Says so in the address. ::)
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Must be true. Says so in the address. ::)
OK, the entire content of that site is bullshit, even if it is a real website ;D
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Sorry, but that entire site is all bullshit.
edited for clarity.
I think i'll take the word of Dr Steven Jones over the eloquent and well reasoned "debate" you have offered there thanks ;)
www.ae911truth.org
To each their own, as they say.
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You believe what you want to believe... I didn't name the NIST report, but agree it has been found wanting in both fact and detail. The documentary I alluded to proved beyond all reasonable doubt how the towers collapsed. The findings of the report featured were rejected by the authors of NIST as it highlighted the failings of the NIST report.
The other buildings collapsed as a direct result of the towers collapsing as their foundations simply weren't designed to tolerate the dynamic loads imposed on them as the towers impacted the ground.
The inertia of the towers was immense. And they were only ever going to fall straight down, no lateral force was present during their collapse.
And apart from suggesting that the site you linked to was bullshit, I think my earlier post was pretty lucid and well reasoned ::)
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Regardless of the conditions of the moment, history has always taught us that torture gives you nothing valuable in terms of Intel and only problems in the cold light of day......Studies of numerous historical military conflicts will confirm this to anyone with half a brain.
It is the fear of the unknown which drives the desire to resort to such measures and displays a certain lack of moral courage to concede to that base instinct rather than thinking rationally and taking decisions with an educated, analytical mind.
Ah, so we come down to management being "fit for purpose" again. In very general terms of course. Rarely have I encounteted individuals worthy of, well.....leadership, I suppose, even ignoring situations where the shit really has hit the fan.
I can't imagine the pressure these people encounteted during the events of 911.
But how far to take this moral fibre? Much as I feel he deserved it, how does the report on torture balance with the shooting, or even murder, of OBL? Don't get me wrong, nobody is complaining, but that can't really be justified either, can it? Rush the house, shoot him dead, take the body, identify him. Lob the body over board. Is that legal?
Nail on the head as far as I am concerned...but I have to be careful what I say publically on this...
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Regardless of the conditions of the moment, history has always taught us that torture gives you nothing valuable in terms of Intel and only problems in the cold light of day......Studies of numerous historical military conflicts will confirm this to anyone with half a brain.
It is the fear of the unknown which drives the desire to resort to such measures and displays a certain lack of moral courage to concede to that base instinct rather than thinking rationally and taking decisions with an educated, analytical mind.
Ah, so we come down to management being "fit for purpose" again. In very general terms of course. Rarely have I encounteted individuals worthy of, well.....leadership, I suppose, even ignoring situations where the shit really has hit the fan.
I can't imagine the pressure these people encounteted during the events of 911.
But how far to take this moral fibre? Much as I feel he deserved it, how does the report on torture balance with the shooting, or even murder, of OBL? Don't get me wrong, nobody is complaining, but that can't really be justified either, can it? Rush the house, shoot him dead, take the body, identify him. Lob the body over board. Is that legal?
Nail on the head as far as I am concerned...but I have to be careful what I say publically on this...
A simplistic view in my post as I can't imagine for one momment that he wouldn't be armed. And iirc it was presented that he was, but how the hell would we know, they could say what they like and we'd be none the wiser.
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You believe what you want to believe... I didn't name the NIST report, but agree it has been found wanting in both fact and detail. The documentary I alluded to proved beyond all reasonable doubt how the towers collapsed. The findings of the report featured were rejected by the authors of NIST as it highlighted the failings of the NIST report.
To put it mildly.
The other buildings collapsed as a direct result of the towers collapsing as their foundations simply weren't designed to tolerate the dynamic loads imposed on them as the towers impacted the ground.
Sounds implausible. A lot of buildings with lower safety factor designs are still standing.
The inertia of the towers was immense. And they were only ever going to fall straight down, no lateral force was present during their collapse.
So the 2/3rds of the (relatively stone cold and over engineered for safety) structure that supported the wieght of the top 1/3 for the last 40years offered no resistance to the passage of the top falling?? If your head decided to fall now under gravity through your chest and out your arse with no resistance would I be able to explain that away with stating there was no lateral force present I wonder?
And apart from suggesting that the site you linked to was bullshit, I think my earlier post was pretty lucid and well reasoned ::)
Limited oxygen available for combustion (hence large orange/black fireball on impact) means temperatures were never hot enough to melt steel as claimed. (as evidenced by survivors holding onto the building and peering out after impact).
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1. We agree on that.
2. No less implausible than the CIA blowing them up for the shear hell of it...
3.If the bones in my neck suddenly turned to jello I could reasonably expect my head to drop straight down. Not a great analogy as it would then fall off as my head is larger than my neck.
The fact is that the aircraft ended up pretty much centrally within the towers, and the structure was able to withstand that as the vertical loads were redirected around the impact sites. This has been physically tested/proven. The buildings were designed to withstand such impacts. However they weren't designed to withstand 1400 degree molten aluminium draining down the structure.
The yellow 'sparks' seen just before the collapses were not pre charges for some contrived demolition plot, but in fact molten aluminium draining out of the building as it pooled and burned through the insulation and steel. This in turn weakened the already stressed steel, meaning collapse was imminent.
4. Of course there was unlimited oxygen. The atmosphere contains breathable oxygen to about 15.000 feet. I don't recall the buildings being vacuum sealed after the planes hit. I'm pretty sure the news footage might have mentioned it as I watched it happen live...
Whilst there's a valid case for suggesting that the NSA/CIA allowed 9/11 to happen, it is far, far removed from them actually orchestrating the whole thing... which they didn't, regardless of what you or anyone else might like to think.
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1. We agree on that.
2. No less implausible than the CIA blowing them up for the shear hell of it...
3.If the bones in my neck suddenly turned to jello I could reasonably expect my head to drop straight down. Not a great analogy as it would then fall off as my head is larger than my neck.
The fact is that the aircraft ended up pretty much centrally within the towers, and the structure was able to withstand that as the vertical loads were redirected around the impact sites. This has been physically tested/proven. The buildings were designed to withstand such impacts. However they weren't designed to withstand 1400 degree molten aluminium draining down the structure.
The yellow 'sparks' seen just before the collapses were not pre charges for some contrived demolition plot, but in fact molten aluminium draining out of the building as it pooled and burned through the insulation and steel. This in turn weakened the already stressed steel, meaning collapse was imminent.
4. Of course there was unlimited oxygen. The atmosphere contains breathable oxygen to about 15.000 feet. I don't recall the buildings being vacuum sealed after the planes hit. I'm pretty sure the news footage might have mentioned it as I watched it happen live...
Whilst there's a valid case for suggesting that the NSA/CIA allowed 9/11 to happen, it is far, far removed from them actually orchestrating the whole thing... which they didn't, regardless of what you or anyone else might like to think.
"FAR removed"?? Wow. That's a statement. :o
Given that steel doesn't melt until 1500degC, localised 1400degC molten aluminium wouldn't cause it that much trauma, if indeed it was ever there. I suggest researching maximum temperatures of hydrocarbon fires under atmospheric pressure incidentally... or backdraught... or anything to do with fire and oxygen....
(http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt133/011011011/wrong_internet_zpsa6c18a07.jpg)
Me and my degree in structural engineering are off to bed, goodnight! ;)
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Amazing x30xe. So many posts, and not one in relation to the question.
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Ah a structural engineer... what we need is a chemist... oh wait, there... here's one :y
http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2011-09/new-theory-world-trade-center-collapse-blames-explosive-chemical-reaction (http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2011-09/new-theory-world-trade-center-collapse-blames-explosive-chemical-reaction)
This is the highlights of the paper on which the documentary I saw was based.
I got my numbers wrong as I was reciting from memory. yellow liquid aluminium exists at 2700 degrees, not 1400. Hands up to that one :-[
Picture is a truism if ever there was ;D Night Night.
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Amazing x30xe. So many posts, and not one in relation to the question.
Yeah, that's probably my fault... ::)
Did you spot the molten aluminium/water piece?
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Yes I did. But there will be some reason not to believe that either I'm sure. ::)
Thing is, purely because something is not understood, doesn't mean it's wrong, or that the facts thought to be correct and absolute at one momment in time won't be changed and rethought or understood better later as more facts or oddities come to light.
Going off on a mad tangent for example, based on even less facts that the original theory helps nobody. Miss trust is healthy to a point, one must think for ones self indeed.
But that site is clearly not a case of thinking for ones self. It's a case of thinking anything other than the official line and taking that as official instead.
Officials opps up, and often make the mistake of being over officious about it. Even before all the "facts" are in. That doesn't help either.
Conspiracy theorists aye. Jeez.
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Indeed... there's speculation and there's speculation...
In the cold light of day, nearly 4000 people died in one almost inconceivable event. Who did it and why is almost irrelevant.
That one day enabled someone to rewrite the constitution with a single signature and provided an excuse to allow Geoff Bush Jnr to unfinish what had been a clean and tidy Gulf War in '91 by trampling all over the Middle East.
The latest 'revelations' about CIA torture camps and secret flights are old news. it's just that we were all too wrapped up in the 9/11 fallout to care or notice. As for the legality of such behaviour, I guess it depends on your perspective. But what's done is done, and most of the myths have been dispelled systematically and openly and some truths have been exposed along the way.
But to your original question... ::) Had I been in GWBs shoes, would I have acted differently? Who knows. Perhaps he really was an NSA/CIA puppet told what to say at every turn, but his initial reaction on 9/11 spoke volumes. That much at least I would have done differently, and there would have been no WMD bullshit and certainly no Patriot Act. But would I have chased the people behind 9/11 into the ground? Damn right I would.
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What would I have done as President?
Glassed the middle east and then glassed Russia just to be sure.
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What I like is the idea that several hundred, perhaps thousands are complicit in covering up the conspiracy, without even one whistleblower. Totally believable. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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What I like is the idea that several hundred, perhaps thousands are complicit in covering up the conspiracy, without even one whistleblower. Totally believable. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Quite, the very notion that a government agency could plant carefully positioned explosives in several buildings without the unions or organized crime* noticing is laughable.
People try to comprehend how such a catastrophe could happen, and given the less than solid leadership at the time, it makes sense that the government gets the blame, especially as the first reaction is the Patriot Act and the second is to re invade Iraq on a whim...
*delete as applicable, New Yoik being a mafia run union toiwn and all ::)
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What I like is the idea that several hundred, perhaps thousands are complicit in covering up the conspiracy, without even one whistleblower. Totally believable. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
You dont need several thousand people to be complicit, dont be ferkin daft.....
.....just one or two friendly aliens could do everything you need to execute this conspiracy ::)
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Amazing x30xe. So many posts, and not one in relation to the question.
Yes, I did Chris, but without response! ::) ::) ::) ::)
Typical! ;D ;D ;D :y :y
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.....just one or two friendly aliens could do everything you need to execute this conspiracy ::)
Are we talking the Jesus the Mexican kind or the ALF kind? ;D
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Guess who grew up in Germany watching classic american tv... ;D
For the amount of trouble, it must have been Tribbles wot dun it :D
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What I like is the idea that several hundred, perhaps thousands are complicit in covering up the conspiracy, without even one whistleblower. Totally believable. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Whilst I don't go for any conspiracy theories over 9/11 , I am impressed that the military kept the secret of diverting MH370 to Diego garcia and unloading the top secret nucleeiser device and then ditching it in an unknown part of the South India Ocean.
I am still amazed at how few people have come out and said they would or wouldn't have done the Guantanamo Bay thing. Not a hard question to answer. Plenty of tangental stuff though ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Please explain to me (new to OOF) why '9/11 was a set up.'
I have posted many pages on oof.. please use use the search button for 9/11
or just google it