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[cem_devecioglu]

No from me, as already said we have well armed and well trained units ready to be called upon when/if the occassion arises.

this is interesting but crimes generally happen and finish within minutes.. in that time I couldnt even wear my suits

[bored bigyin54]

No from me, as already said we have well armed and well trained units ready to be called upon when/if the occassion arises.

when they get out its to late

[albitz]

i say yes to police carrying guns 

"All armed officers in South Wales proceed to Ralfs house.He is armed with an arsenal of pattern parts and ready to use them,so proceed with caution and use lethal force if required". 

[belfast stephen]

as far i know the psni (police service of northern ireland) is the only force iin the uk to carry a sidearm and it does not stop them dealing with day to day policing issues

[tigers_gonads]

i say yes to police carrying guns 

"All armed officers in South Wales proceed to Ralfs house.He is armed with an arsenal of pattern parts and ready to use them,so proceed with caution and use lethal force is required". 

Changed that for you 

[big mel]

I'd like to say yes, but the  policeman of to-day have to watch evey move they make it must be very frustrating for them, they are not allowed to do the job properly chances they get nancy boys in westminster who dont live the world we have live in saying they are to hard on the crims. when i was a lad you had respect for the police, so i reluctantly say no.

[Kevin Wood]

No to armed officers, IMHO. In the circumstances where firearms will help, they are readily available to the Police. Firearms teams are small, very well trained and are regularly put in such situations, so remain in practice. Handing out guns like notebooks with the very little training and experience that budgets would allow will add fuel to the fire.

Proper parenting (yes, it does matter, IMHO), a proper deterrent (i.e. a shitty time inside with exclusion of rights, not better rights than the victims outside) and sentencing that reflects the seriousness of the crime not the level of vacancies in the prison system are what we need.

[Crazycarzowner]

To be honest, even after the events of yesterday I'd still say 'no' & wouldn't like to be armed myself. As said before I as a police officer police by consent and carrying a fire arm would become a 'force'. The fire arm would put a barrier between us and the public that we serve. The terrible events of yesterday I believe (reading from reports on TV & what the Chief said) would probably have had the same outcome even if the bobbies had been armed. The 'snake' who lured the poor PS's to the address laid a trap that, well was only going to end badly for the bobbies & they'd probably wouldn't have time to draw, never mind fire their weapons.

The thing that is really getting my goat now is all the bloody press saying 'could they not be better protected?'    Its bad enough trying to lug 14lb of body armour + utility belt + everything you carry on it. How / what else can we wear without looking like Robocop??? AND then all the What ifs??? they keep coming out with??? Lets face it, if the little bastid was hiding out anywhere, not just in GMP's area and no one knew he was there, he could have laid that trap ANYWHERE in the country.

[tigers_gonads]

To be honest, even after the events of yesterday I'd still say 'no' & wouldn't like to be armed myself. As said before I as a police officer police by consent and carrying a fire arm would become a 'force'. The fire arm would put a barrier between us and the public that we serve. The terrible events of yesterday I believe (reading from reports on TV & what the Chief said) would probably have had the same outcome even if the bobbies had been armed. The 'snake' who lured the poor PS's to the address laid a trap that, well was only going to end badly for the bobbies & they'd probably wouldn't have time to draw, never mind fire their weapons.


Also to add .................. I don't think its just a case of arming the bobby on the beat.
I honestly believe it time for us all to stand back and re avaluate our responce to this sort of crime.


 

The thing that is really getting my goat now is all the bloody press saying 'could they not be better protected?'    Its bad enough trying to lug 14lb of body armour + utility belt + everything you carry on it. How / what else can we wear without looking like Robocop??? AND then all the What ifs??? they keep coming out with??? Lets face it, if the little bastid was hiding out anywhere, not just in GMP's area and no one knew he was there, he could have laid that trap ANYWHERE in the country.

I understand what you are saying but for one point, Why should the carrying of a sidearm affect the relationship between the police and the general public ?

I have worked in and visited quite a few countrys over the years and have never been intimidated by any official who has a sidearm.
I'm ex forces myself and have no fear what so ever of any weapon.
The thing that scares the sh*t out of me is the person holding it 

[tigers_gonads]

Just to add ............... I realise that arming the police is not the solution but I believe it should be a part of it.
What the rest of the solution is I don't know 

[Rods2]

No, the system is okay as it is.

Armed response teams are picked for their temperament and good judgement and are very well trained.

You are asking a not so well trained officer, who may or may not be of such sound judgement and temperament to make an instant decision and act as judge, jury and executioner. This would probably lead to more UK citizens being injured or killed by the police, even with the best of intentions.

A surprise attack is exactly that and you are probably injured or dead before you have time to react with gun, tazer or pepper spray.

We are losing control in many of our cities like they did in the US, zero tolerance solved that. We know how to fix the problem, but there is no will to this where it matters.

I think the police are let down by the judicial system, with the criminal is treated as the victim and rehabilitation rather than punishment is all too often given as a sentence. A life sentence these days is a joke as it usually means 7 to 12 years inside. Life should be life, which we were promised when the death sentence was repealed. This would save an average of 3 lives a year, where a lifer has been released and goes on to kill again (according to Norman Tebbit in DT).

Unfortunately, it is going to have to get as bad or worse than the US was at its crime peak, before it gets any better.

Very sad what has happened in Manchester and I give my condolences to the murdered PC's families, friends and colleagues. 

Is there a case for very violent criminals being held for a longer periods of time in custody, while an investigation proceeds, rather than them being let out on police bail? Checks could be build into the system, so the time period could only be extended by the judiciary etc. This is how the terrorism act works and when somebody is using a gun and in this case grenades, surely the danger to the public is of the same order of magnitude.

[cem_devecioglu]

I'm reading this thread with interest.. and I'm against firearms but not for people who has the duty..
 
its like a surgeon without a knife   I respect a modern communities past experiences and knowledge..
 
but where there is violence and criminal act , its the end of civilized idea and behaviour..
 
 

[Crazycarzowner]

Yeah, I know what you mean Tigers, but I imagine the laws regarding firearms & what happens when law officers shoot people are different in the countries you've visited???

If a PC happens to shoot someone here, they are effectively on gardening leave for at least 2yrs, whilst trying to prove justification for doing 'their job'. I wouldn't do the job of a firearms officer (the way the law stands at the moment) for all the money in the world.
 And yes there are the questions - what do you do on friday/saturday nights when picture the scene......... pi$$ed up idiots fighting in the street / outside pubs. they aint gonna stop just because you carry a firearm. Recently seen in the place where I work, firearms officers took a backseat because they couldn't get involved in a scrap for fear of being a potential risk in the scuffle.

I applaud the job they do, don't get me wrong, the training, commitment and professionalism of the unit is second to none, but its like any specialist unit in the police, its specialist and the elite. There are many coppers (who wouldn't mind me saying this) I wouldn't trust with a gun. A) because they couldn't hit a barn door at 10 paces, B) wouldn't want to use one, C) would literally be frightened to death by the though of using it. Just like many officers don't like going fast in a police car i.e. Advanced driving. thats why we have these specialist units.

To answer your point about the public perception, when we went from the white shirt, tie and tunic to the black top / combat combination a survey of the local public deemed that the new style of dress made the public feel less likely to want to approach / speak to the bobby on the street. Faced with the way firearms officers dress & kit protection + firearms public perception would suffer even more.

What my personal opinion is, is that we as a country need to dig deep down and find our backbone again. Have tougher sentences again, in jails that are not 4* hotels, when a sentence is given it is FULLY served, stop pussyfooting about with the euro-burocrats and tell em to Foxtrot Oscar and have a tough line on all criminals. The problem is we're TOO soft TOO ready to roll over to idiots in Brussels and don't have a government that has the balls to tell em!!!

Rant over

[stewart000]

we have one of the few forces where every copper does not carry,

why should the baddies be the ones with anything from a stanly knife to a tek 9 or uzi

[Entwood]

Given the response to the survey of SERVING officers, where 82% did NOT want to be armed

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19641398

I would suggest that a great many highly experienced officers might leave if FORCED to bear arms. Whilst, in time, they would be replaced by those who think carrying a gun is a manhood thing, the standard of policing would drop dramatically, and probably never recover.

The great unwashed british public, lead by such wonderful publications as the Sun/Mirror, might think they know best - yeah .. arm the police innit ... - but I would suggest those that actually do the job know a great deal more than a few jumped up tabloid editors looking for a headline.