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[omega3000]

Nice one Bearorinioto 

[Webby the Bear]

Guys, I would like to talk about penetration if I may (no STMO....not what you're thinkin'  )

I have been reading about this and when ''butt'' welding (joining two pieces pushed up to each other) the MIG forum says the following is poor, ok and over penetration for butt welding.....


SO.

Just as a reminder here's my first proper butt weld which I think looks ok (once I've grinded it down  )...


But as you can see from this piccie of t'other side I just took I have poor penetration for a butt joint...


The MIG forum states that you definitely shouldn't see the two joins.

So. Bearing in mind this weld was done at the Max setting..... will leaving a gap of around 1/2 the thickness of the metal solve this problem as the MIG forum suggests? Or is there summat fundamental I'm getting wrong.

I await your thoughts with beef jerky baited breath

[Webby the Bear]

Afternoon guys, I hope you're all well I apologise in advance as this is going to be a pic heavy and long post lol

 Got the week off as had to use up some hol. Although only today could I get round to welding as was with the mrs yesterday and Monday. anyways I digress lol

 Firstly, I used the ''pee shooter'' that recently arrived...... was indoors on max ''6'' on the regulator and only got 5LPM. this is clearly the reason why my welds look not that great lol is there a known problem with this Clarke welder and its gas distribution? im sure ive heard someone mention this. kev perhaps? 

 So anyways, today's exercise was to weld some beads on all different thicknesses of steel and actually get the settings written down so that I can simply refer to my notebook for the correct setting / wire speed. Then once that was all noted down I would try the methods we've discussed to get this good penetration on some butt welds.

 Ok, so some 4mm. I only laid a couple of beads cos quite honestly I'm not convinced this welder will join 4mm that easily and in honesty I probably wont be focusing on this sort of thickness. anyways I noted the best setting for a nice sizzle was MAX 2 - W/S - 6.5
[​IMG]

 Some 3mm beads... setting MAX 2 - W/S 6
[​IMG]

 Some 2mm beads.... setting MAX 2 - W/S 5
[​IMG]

 And some 1.5mm beads... setting MAX 2 - W/S 5
[​IMG]

 The interesting thing about these is that I found I could weld the 1.5mm on the max heat setting. I did notice that the metal easily distorted though so I'm thinking that I either dial the heat down or when welding I will attack it in short bursts so as not to distort it.

 As per the videos posted by norlander i think, I also found that doing loops with the puddle / pool got that classic weld look lol so will do that from now on too

 So as of now I'm totally comfortable laying beads on top of steel. check point 1 made lol

 So miving on to some butt welds...

 3.5mm...with a root gap of about 1.5mm....
[​IMG]
 you can see in the pic that the inner most weld is a bit fat. I noticed this and then did the smaller weld closest to the bottom of the pic. the reason it was fat initially was cos I was experimenting with travel speed:the fat one was very slow.

 as you can see even with a root gap the penetration is still showing the two joins...
[​IMG]

 A 2mm butt weld....
[​IMG]
 really not pretty and I think I really suffered from gas distribution issues here. but hey ho.

 This 2mm join was a tad better...
[​IMG]

 my camera died so couldn't get any other shots of penetetration but theyre all the same and all are showing the gap still. where to go from here?

 is it something I should be worrying about bearing in mind I beat the living crap out of it and the first thing to bend was the centre of the steel and not my weld lol....
[​IMG]

 around all the butt welds im getting a real nice ''heat leach'' but as said no weld filtering through the gap.

 anyway to end on a high. I did a 1.5mm lap weld and its prob my best looking weld so far....
[​IMG]
[​IMG]

 What do you think guys? and any help with the gap still showing issue would be awesome

[Webby the Bear]

piccies no worky....

see last post on here for pics (same thread)

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/day-1-of-self-teaching-mig-welding.50838/page-4#post-584200

[Marks DTM Calib]

No issues with gas distribution from the Clarke but, the cheap small bottle regulators are a bit naff.

You wont get full penetration on such think steel, I mentioned this when you were looking at welders 

If going thick, prep your material with under cut.

[Webby the Bear]

Soz I missed that Mark. But obviously I had a LOT of info to take in 

So basically.... on all the metal sizes I been working on (1.5 to 4mm) even with root gaps and bevels and ''V''s I'm always going to end up with my underside looking like the one on the left....


if so, then am I still ok to weld floor pans, tables etc.? obviously last thang I want is to make a table and then it collapses lol or put a floor in to a car like symes does and then the occupants are left in the middle of the M1 

Also are undercuts what I mentioned....the bevels, 'V's' etc?

[Webby the Bear]

Been thinking about the gas distribution....

Being indoors and only getting 5LPM....... if I get a new regulator will that up the gas flow to level required?

[henryd]

Been thinking about the gas distribution....

Being indoors and only getting 5LPM....... if I get a new regulator will that up the gas flow to level required?

you will always struggle with the disposable bottles,if you change the reg to up the pressure the bottle will be empty in a few minutes

[Webby the Bear]

ok, thanks henry 

but for the purposes of learning.... is this an obvious reason why half my welds look garbage? they look good once ive done them and as they are cooling down...then they seem to ''gather'' this brown shite and other crap!

[Shackeng]

I used to rent a bottle from BOC for the MIG welder Gixer now has. It certainly made welding easier with a continual positive pressure at whatever setting used, however they were not cheap to hire, I think even the small one I used 10 years ago was about £45 a year, and as I had already rebuilt the Beetle I bought it for, it was not worth paying for, hence disposal of MIG welder.

[Webby the Bear]

Thanks guys. Will look in to this gas issue

ps, when bevelling to make a butt weld.... is it just a 45 degree angle that's desirable allthe way to the bottom?

[aaronjb]

Look at hobbyweld for gas or one of the other rent-free suppliers

For bevel joints - there are choices to be made as to whether you bevel all the way down or whether you effectively 'groove' the joint and leave a thin piece of metal un-bevelled; start reading here: http://www.tpub.com/steelworker1/16.htm

[edit] Although as you're not talking about passing a coding exam, just whack any old bevel on there and as long as it's straight and you can strike the arc and get good penetration before using the filler to build it back up to level again.. you'll be fine.

I'm surprised you can't get full penetration on 1.5mm steel with that welder, though.. really should try mine out some time (and get more gas for it) 

[Webby the Bear]

Thanks Aaron.

Going out to give the bevels a go.

Yeah I was surprised too. but I did just do a gap with no bevels AND I'm clearly having gas issues (lol) which im informed do affect penetration. This was tested with a ''pee shooter'' gas flow meter with the trigger half depressed so just gas coming out with no wire.

I'm going to try and isolate the gas issue by measuring gas coming out of the regulator with tube disconnected. if that's good then I know its in my line(s) somewhere.

if its low coming out of the bottle im going to get a new regulator cos, even though henry mentioned consuming gas quickly, but I really want some nice welds, ya know.

then ill look at getting a decent bottle

[Webby the Bear]

Ok, I have another question lol

After reading lots of things online it appears that the Clarke I have will weld up to 3.0 to 3.5mm....not the 5mm they say! lol

But welding that thick does mean a lot of preparation..... gapping, bevels and good gas flow.

My question however is referring to a little drawing I've done 


If I bevel and gap my 3mm workpiece and I run a bead of weld as in the pic....the areas ive marked with 'stars' are not going to have any weld in them. I could weave or loop or whatever y'all call it to cover it but apparently that makes for a weak joint so obviously I want to avoid that. should I simply run two more seems where the stars are and then one on top for good measure?

obviously the above wont matter with 1.5mm and the like but will 'weld coverage' be an issue with 3mm?

[Nick W]

Don't over think the bevels for thin stuff like 3mm; running the grinder along the sharp corner ought to be enough. The gap between the pieces should be the thickness of the wire, even with thin sheet.

Having had a try with thicker metal, you should find the sheet metal much easier, as you're now watching the actual weld.