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Author Topic: Russian Bears  (Read 4191 times)

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tigers_gonads

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Re: Russian Bears
« Reply #15 on: 20 February 2015, 17:21:48 »

Nice shot of a Bedford S-Type bus in one of the pics. Back when we made things like Bedfords in this country, before someone called Thatcher cancelled the MoD's order for them made them buy Leylands, and then both companies went bust  ::)

Also very proud to see three of the pics are taken in Lincolnshire, RAF Waddington and Scampton (of Dambusters fame) maybe it's natural for me to love the RAF, being a Lincolnshire lad, but please let someone in power realise that there's not such thing as 'painting a wall too well' or 'overengineering' or 'needlessly measuring twice' - sadly that's the mentality of the government - if you measure something twice, and the second time the measurement comes up the same, well, that second check of the ruler was a waste of time - perfect place to make cutbacks! Slightly short-sighted, I fear.

I know a guy who was in the RAF, No 2 squadron, worked on Hunters in the late 40s and early 50s, went over the world, actually touched an atomic bomb in Australia, I expect not many of us can claim to have done that. Lovely guy, I now own all his old kit, which I'll be wearing this summer at re-enactments and remembrance ceremonies :) He adored his time in the RAF, and speaky very warmly of it. As I said in my above post, perhaps that was the real 'Golden Age' if there was one. My god, to be alive then...   :)




Lets just say that nights on "Q" out in Germany got very boring at times when you got sick of playing ukers and watching porn films  :-X :-X
I was also detached to 17sqn Bruggan when one had a little mishap  ;)
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Webby the Bear

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Re: Russian Bears
« Reply #16 on: 20 February 2015, 18:58:44 »

As in the Tupolev Tu-95 'Bear' bombers, and not Webbys eastern cousins!  :)

So these 1950's turbo prop bombers have been popping up quite a lot recently and we dispatch a couple of Typhoons to escort them off the premises.  :y 

But are they any sort of threat?  :-\  Should we be more worried?  :-\  They seem to be regarded as a bit of a nuisance and that they're just sabre rattling, but could these flights have a more sinister mission?  ::) 

One thing that does worry me slightly, is that it was reported tonight that 2 'Bears' were 'spotted' off the coast of Cornwall.  It seems extraordinary to me that we didn't spot these old leviathans until then.  ::) I've no military or aviation knowledge/experience but I'd have thought that they would have been seen and tracked from the moment they entered international airspace if not before?  ???  :-\

Maybe the RAF is so skint that they had to have a whip round in the mess for fuel, and by the time they caught up with the Ruskies they were off of Newquay!  :o  ;D  Tally Ho!!  ;D

PS: I've just seen critiscism of the RAF for intervening in the Russian Airforce's mission to 'regenerate' Camborne!  :-X  :D  ;D

...and I thought it was  ::) ;D
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Re: Russian Bears
« Reply #17 on: 20 February 2015, 19:20:10 »

Yes, our armed forces have been run down since 1991 as a 'peace' dividend where Russia's was meant to have come all democratic and cuddly, except it hasn't worked out like that! :(

At least, at 2.4% of GDP we are still one of five countries spending over the NATO requirement of 2%. However, Putin's aggression and the violation of the Helsinki Accords means that the UK and the rest of Europe are going to have to do a strategic review and spend more money.

Probably, the worst major economy for underspending is Germany at 1.3% of GDP and due to a shortage of small arms, in a recent exercise some of their troops and armoured vehicles use black painted broomsticks to simulate guns, I kid you not. :o :o :o :o

The problem with this over cutting of defence budgets, is the numbers game of tanks, aircraft in 'operational service' is actually much lower than the quoted figures, due to mothballing and cannibalization to keep others running within budgets.

The Ukrainian army has been poor, the senior officers abysmal, with some caught working for Russia, but the Russian army has been little better apart from a few elite forces. Russia is using Ukraine as a proving ground for much of their latest equipment and the Ukrainian army with their 20 year old anti-tank weapons are generally damaging tanks rather than breaching the armour. Something that modern western anti-tank weapons don't have a problem doing. Even so, the war in East Ukraine has been more costly to Russia in terms of casualties already than Afghanistan with over 5,000 killed. There are over 4,000 new graves in Rostov in Chechnya and numerous small graveyards in Ukraine full of Russian mercenaries and troops along with 7 Russian mobile crematorium that can incinerate up to 56 bodies per day, but they haven't been able keep up. :o :o :o :o

If we continue to appease Putin we will find out sooner rather than later on how good our forces are against the Russians as Putin will overstep the mark or create a worse MH17, where we will have no choice but to react. The general consensus that this will probably happen in the Baltics, but could also very easily happy in the Balkans.

Putler has relied of a growing economy to keep the Moscow elite happening, while he was busy stealing an alleged $200bn, but with a faltering economy, he needs new distractions for the sheeple and nationalism, creating artificials enemies and wars does the job nicely.

With the very poor Western response to Ukraine, there is plenty of scope for this to turn into a more general war, which the West may get entangled in.
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Re: Russian Bears
« Reply #18 on: 20 February 2015, 23:13:52 »

What's your view on our defence Mr Entwood  ::) I hear increasingly that we wouldnt stand a chance if Russia started the war games on us :-\
« Last Edit: 20 February 2015, 23:15:38 by EMD »
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05omegav6

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Re: Russian Bears
« Reply #19 on: 21 February 2015, 02:14:20 »

What's your view on our defence Mr Entwood  ::) I hear increasingly that we wouldnt stand a chance if Russia started the war games on us :-\
That's because you only read believe the Daily Mail... ::)
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Sir Tigger KC

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Re: Russian Bears
« Reply #20 on: 21 February 2015, 10:08:39 »

What's your view on our defence Mr Entwood  ::) I hear increasingly that we wouldnt stand a chance if Russia started the war games on us :-\
That's because you only read believe the Daily Mail... ::)

Probably right though.  ::) 

When a strange submarine was spotted off the west coast of Scotland recently, we had to get the French and Yanks to look for it due to our limited anti submarine capabilities.  :o  :(

Lucky they didn't disband NATO as part of the 'peace dividend'....  ::)
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Re: Russian Bears
« Reply #21 on: 21 February 2015, 11:31:45 »

Dosn't military radar pick them up regardless of whether they have their ident beacons on or off?  ???   If they were on a serious bombing mission they'd hardly be broadcasting their location to all and sundrey...  ::)  :D
Hence scrambling the Typhoons inspite of the Bears being in international airspace :y

Missing my point a bit Al, those 'Bears' must have skirted British airspace long before they got to Cornwall.  It just seems late to intercept them.  :-\

I'm sure that the Russians have more modern, faster and capable aircraft that they could use against us if they felt the need and if we can't spot them....  ::)
TU160 was (is) a stunning looking machine.  8)
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05omegav6

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Re: Russian Bears
« Reply #22 on: 21 February 2015, 13:33:20 »

No slouch either... one of the fastest propeller aircraft ever made iirc...
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Russian Bears
« Reply #23 on: 21 February 2015, 15:03:29 »

No slouch either... one of the fastest propeller aircraft ever made iirc...

Yep, and the most powerful turboprop engines, too. 15,000 SHP each.
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Re: Russian Bears
« Reply #24 on: 21 February 2015, 20:27:07 »

The ones we need to be scared about are first the tankers going out and disappearing over the north atlantic then the same for the Blackjacks / Backfires  :(
That means they will be refilling there fuel tanks then coming in low down and fast for real  :'(

Russian IL-78M tankers were involved in this weeks mission - at least 4 of them ::)
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LC0112G

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Re: Russian Bears
« Reply #25 on: 21 February 2015, 21:35:48 »


Missing my point a bit Al, those 'Bears' must have skirted British airspace long before they got to Cornwall.  It just seems late to intercept them.  :-\

The UK has 2 bases that stand QRA - QRA-N at Lossiemouth in Scotland (near Inverness), and QRA-S at Coningsby in Lincolnshire (near Boston). There is also a single tanker base - RAF Brize Norton, near Oxford. When QRA-N or QRA-S launch, they also (usually) launch the alert tanker from Brize (called TANSOR) so that it can get into position to refuel the QRA jets, and help keep them on station.

When the Ruskies leave their own airspace, they are usually first tracked and intercepted by Norwegian radar and interceptors (F-16's). As they approach UK airspace, they are handed off to UK air defence which decides whether to launch QRA-N. QQRA-N is responsible for the areas north of Scotland and Ireland. On this occasion, TANSOR launched from Brize at about 14:30, and headed north. I don't have any info as to whether QRA-N launched out of Lossie, but it's obvious that everyone was aware of the Bears approach by this time.

The Bears passed down the west of Ireland. Ireland is a neutral country, not a member of NATO, and RAF jets are not authorised to enter Irish airspace without diplomatic clearance. So if QRA-N was launched, they would have returned to base once the Bears entered Irish controlled airspace (Shannon ATC). The RAF would not attempt to follow the Bears down the west coast of Ireland.

TANSOR then tracked south over the Isle of Man (at 16:00) and went to ARA12 off the North Cornwall coast. QRA-S (which is responsible for UK defence of the areas to the south of Ireland) launched at about 16:25, and the 2 Typhoons headed out into the Bristol Channel and Western approaches. Shannon (Irish ATC) reported unidentified traffic south of the Fastnet Rock to several civilian airliners between 18:00 and 18:40.   This will have been the Bears. QRA-S returned to Coningsby at around 19:15, so you can assume the Bears were on their way back up the west coast of Ireland by then.

TANSOR then tracked back north, and was orbiting over western Scotland by 19:50, and then tracked out over the north sea. The assumption is that it was waiting to see that the Bears didn't re-enter UK airspace on the way home. Again it isn't known if QRA-N launched for a second time. TANSOR finally started to head home at about 20:45, and landed back at Brize at about 21:20.

So from all that, it's apparent that the UK was fully aware of, and tracking the Russians from at least 14:30 until 20:45. They didn't just 'pop up' near Cornwall and catch us on the hop.
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Sir Tigger KC

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Re: Russian Bears
« Reply #26 on: 21 February 2015, 22:06:41 »

That's a good explanation.  Thanks!  :y
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tigers_gonads

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Re: Russian Bears
« Reply #27 on: 22 February 2015, 11:22:22 »

The ones we need to be scared about are first the tankers going out and disappearing over the north atlantic then the same for the Blackjacks / Backfires  :(
That means they will be refilling there fuel tanks then coming in low down and fast for real  :'(

Russian IL-78M tankers were involved in this weeks mission - at least 4 of them ::)


Oh they are stepping up on the "training" ain't they  ;D
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tigers_gonads

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Re: Russian Bears
« Reply #28 on: 22 February 2015, 11:29:38 »

What's your view on our defence Mr Entwood  ::) I hear increasingly that we wouldnt stand a chance if Russia started the war games on us :-\
That's because you only read believe the Daily Mail... ::)



Al. trust me on this ............ most of our aircraft are worn out due to over use and not enough TLC after Afghanistan and are not "war capable" due the shortage of spares and are sat in hangers  :(
Can't comment on the Typhoon's readiness but if it is anything like that of the Tornado Gr4's then my guestimate is that only 25% could actually fight  >:(
Tornado info comes from a old mate of mine who is on tonkas right now and left Coningsby last year  :(
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05omegav6

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Re: Russian Bears
« Reply #29 on: 22 February 2015, 12:41:18 »

Do the Russians actually have that much genuinely serviceable stuff?
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