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[Kevin Wood]

Indeed and, as I said above, where in the framework of article 50 is the allowance for such a "once the facts are known" second referendum?

Brussels refuse to negotiate until article 50 is declared, and, once that has been done, our exit within 2 years is irreversible, regardless of what is actually negotiated. I fail to see why this is so difficult to understand.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I think Lizzie has a point.

We are leaving the EU. We all accept that. However that doesn't mean we are not allowed to have our say in how brexit is handled.

Personally I'm sad that the House of Lords folded so easily. They could have been part of the 'balance' needed to appeal to not only the 17 million 'leavers' but also the 16 million 'remainers'. We may be in the minority but it is a big minority.

 

Out of a population of 62 million, with a fair proportion of those with voting rights which I understand stands at about 45 million   That is why some of us remainers feel that another vote once all the facts are known should be justified

This is standard EU practice, historically where referendums are concerned. They strongly discourage them, but if they take place and the electorate have the audacity to give the wrong result, they make them vote again until they get the right result.
Just one more reason why we should get out of this undemocratic, protectionist, soviet style bloc asap.
Several recent polls have said that if the referendum were rerun today the vote to leave would be much higher. Due to the fact that project fear has been shown to be one huge pack of lies.
Hard / soft Brexit is a media soundbite perpetuated by project fear. It should actually be "real Brexit or pretend Brexit".
To remain in the single market, basically means EU membership in all but name.

I don't agree with Lizzie about a second vote. I presume she means a second referendum  Once we have a second vote then why not a third vote.....or a sixth or seventh vote. No, the voting is now done and dusted. Time to move on.

 

[2boxerdogs]

I think Lizzie has a point.

We are leaving the EU. We all accept that. However that doesn't mean we are not allowed to have our say in how brexit is handled.

Personally I'm sad that the House of Lords folded so easily. They could have been part of the 'balance' needed to appeal to not only the 17 million 'leavers' but also the 16 million 'remainers'. We may be in the minority but it is a big minority.

 

Out of a population of 62 million, with a fair proportion of those with voting rights which I understand stands at about 45 million   That is why some of us remainers feel that another vote once all the facts are known should be justified

This is standard EU practice, historically where referendums are concerned. They strongly discourage them, but if they take place and the electorate have the audacity to give the wrong result, they make them vote again until they get the right result.
Just one more reason why we should get out of this undemocratic, protectionist, soviet style bloc asap.
Several recent polls have said that if the referendum were rerun today the vote to leave would be much higher. Due to the fact that project fear has been shown to be one huge pack of lies.
Hard / soft Brexit is a media soundbite perpetuated by project fear. It should actually be "real Brexit or pretend Brexit".
To remain in the single market, basically means EU membership in all but name.

I don't agree with Lizzie about a second vote. I presume she means a second referendum  Once we have a second vote then why not a third vote.....or a sixth or seventh vote. No, the voting is now done and dusted. Time to move on.

.   






Couldn't agree more Opti fed up to the teeth with hearing all the nonsense & what ifs no good ruminating over anything. Deep breaths & move on, lifes too short .

[STEMO]

The BIG problem, as I see it, is that the majority of those who voted leave (present company excepted) thought that it meant that all the immigrants would have to pack up and go home and that no more would be allowed in. I'm prepared to be kind and call them patriotic. I understand exactly where they were/are coming from, hospitals, schools, the benefits system are all creaking under the weight of numbers.
But, of course, this isn't going to happen. The only thing we are going to 'reclaim our borders' from is EU bureaucracy.
So...post brexit....I can see remainers being unhappy about the lost links with Europe and the leavers being unhappy because they didn't get what they voted for.

But, of course, and has been said, no one knows for sure.



As an aside: I notice that there is a lot of cheap money knocking about. Almost daily I am receiving letters telling me I can borrow loads of money at a very competitive rate. At the same time, the credit limit on my cards is being raised without me asking. The ads on the telly are incessant. Interest rates are low, but inflation is climbing, exactly the set of circumstances that caused people to overborrow just before the last crisis.
Throw that into the mix and brexit could be a very rough ride.

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

The BIG problem, as I see it, is that the majority of those who voted leave (present company excepted) thought that it meant that all the immigrants would have to pack up and go home and that no more would be allowed in. I'm prepared to be kind and call them patriotic. I understand exactly where they were/are coming from, hospitals, schools, the benefits system are all creaking under the weight of numbers.
But, of course, this isn't going to happen. The only thing we are going to 'reclaim our borders' from is EU bureaucracy.
So...post brexit....I can see remainers being unhappy about the lost links with Europe and the leavers being unhappy because they didn't get what they voted for.

But, of course, and has been said, no one knows for sure.



As an aside: I notice that there is a lot of cheap money knocking about. Almost daily I am receiving letters telling me I can borrow loads of money at a very competitive rate. At the same time, the credit limit on my cards is being raised without me asking. The ads on the telly are incessant. Interest rates are low, but inflation is climbing, exactly the set of circumstances that caused people to overborrow just before the last crisis.
Throw that into the mix and brexit could be a very rough ride.

You're quite smart for a scouser.

I agree.

2.3%

[Migv6 le Frog Fan]

I didn't vote to leave thinking  the immigrants would be sent home and no more allowed in. I don't know any other leave voters who thought that either.
We will always need a certain, sensible level of immigration, but who is allowed to come should be decided by our elected Govt. in Westminster, according to the needs of our economy, not unelected pen pushers in Brussels.
Anyway, weare leaving and the Tony Blairs, Nick Cleggs, Mandelsons Farrons etc. of this world, and those who think like them, need to accept it and move on, with a positive belief in their own country.

[STEMO]

No, Albs, you didn't vote thinking that, because the economy down there needs immigrants to function. Up north people think different like.........

[Doctor Gollum]

No, Albs, you didn't vote thinking that, because the economy down there needs immigrants to function. Up north people think different like.........

Ah, you mean the Commonwealth demographic

[STEMO]

No, Albs, you didn't vote thinking that, because the economy down there needs immigrants to function. Up north people think different like.........

Ah, you mean the Commonwealth demographic

Do I? Ok then. 

[Varche]

I think Lizzie has a point.

We are leaving the EU. We all accept that. However that doesn't mean we are not allowed to have our say in how brexit is handled.

Personally I'm sad that the House of Lords folded so easily. They could have been part of the 'balance' needed to appeal to not only the 17 million 'leavers' but also the 16 million 'remainers'. We may be in the minority but it is a big minority.

 

Out of a population of 62 million, with a fair proportion of those with voting rights which I understand stands at about 45 million   That is why some of us remainers feel that another vote once all the facts are known should be justified

That just goes to show what a half cocked effort the whole referendum was. Properly run the government should have presented fairly BOTH sides of the coin. That they didn't was a scandal. Perhaps the government should have put the case for leave and the EU the case for remain? Still as others have already said Britain will be just fine after a rocky few years. Rods2 put the scenario for Eurozone very succinctly earlier on.

[Terbs]

I am not sure where this 'immigrants pack up and go home' has come from. I don't know of anyone who voted for that. It seems its the politicians and BBC are the instigators.
I voted leave, because I wanted immigrant numbers lowered, and no political ties with the European dictatorship. I realise we need imported labour, but I also know that the limitations of our infrastructure, just cannot take the pressure of immigrants coming here in their thousands.
Why does nobody talk about the future population increase that will be caused, just by those already here, let alone the thousands coming here every year.

For goodness sake, someone get some balls and start sorting it !!!!!!!!

[STEMO]

I am not sure where this 'immigrants pack up and go home' has come from. I don't know of anyone who voted for that. It seems its the politicians and BBC are the instigators.
I voted leave, because I wanted immigrant numbers lowered, and no political ties with the European dictatorship. I realise we need imported labour, but I also know that the limitations of our infrastructure, just cannot take the pressure of immigrants coming here in their thousands.
Why does nobody talk about the future population increase that will be caused, just by those already here, let alone the thousands coming here every year.

For goodness sake, someone get some balls and start sorting it !!!!!!!!

Oh I say, Tony, you are attractive when you're angry 

[RobG]

our exit within 2 years is irreversible,

Not quite right

[TheBoy]

Many people (myself included) believe it wont hurt us badly, quite the opposite in fact. You and many others believe it will hurt us badly.
None of us has a crysral ball, so we shall just have to wait and see.
At least we are about to become a self governing, independent, democratic nation once again. Is there ever a bad time to to revert to that ?

Unfortunately, despite a period of promising growth, our economy had not recovered from the combo of the old eyed Scottish idiot and the global recession.

Europe is our biggest trading partner, and nobody beyond the God Farage sheep genuinely believes we will get free access to that.  Which isn't ideal when we're not in a particularly strong financial position.

[aaronjb]

The BIG problem, as I see it, is that the majority of those who voted leave (present company excepted) thought that it meant that all the immigrants would have to pack up and go home and that no more would be allowed in.

You mean they won't? Oh hell






I was looking forward to us sending most of the country back to Norway (all those Viking raiding parties, coming over here, raping & pillaging), Italy (all the bloody Romans, coming over here, building stuff), Germany (that bloody royal family.. )