Omega Owners Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Please play nicely.  No one wants to listen/read a keyboard warriors rants....

Pages: [1] 2 3  All   Go Down

Author Topic: Police road accidents . . .  (Read 2573 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

largecol

  • Intermediate Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Middlesbrough
  • Posts: 410
  • I cant see my socks!!
    • View Profile
Police road accidents . . .
« on: 05 May 2009, 11:20:30 »

Not wishing to start another scrap between OOfers, but is anyone else suprised by figures like this?? :o :o :-/
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20090504/tuk-police-cause-nine-crashes-a-day-dba1618.html#share
Logged
Pssssst! The man in my avatar aint really me!!

Gareth Lewis

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Glossop, Derbyshire
  • Posts: 590
  • eCommerce and Website Design & Implementation
    • View Profile
Re: Police road accidents . . .
« Reply #1 on: 05 May 2009, 11:40:07 »

OK BUT you have to consider ........

How many cars are there on the roads at one time?
How many miles do they cover in just one day?
How often are they having to drive at speed?

You also have to consider that everytime a police car (or any emergency services vehicle for that matter) is involved in an accident it is front page news if not nationally but locally.

Apart from the arsehole who acted like an idiot and knocked the girl down personally I think they do a tremendous job and having seen the training they have to go through be assured if they were not so well trained there would be one hell of a lot more!

Logged
[size=11]Website: www.online-selling.co.uk
Successful Website Solutions
eCommerce and Website Design, Management & Implementation[/b]
[/size]

TheBoy

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Brackley, Northants
  • Posts: 106837
  • I Like Lockdown
    • Whatever Starts
    • View Profile
Re: Police road accidents . . .
« Reply #2 on: 05 May 2009, 12:00:30 »

No, not surprised at all.  Even with all the training, driving at speed trying to stop the bad guys is inherently dangerous.

I know, due to the bad publicity after an accident, some forces now no longer do pursuits except in extreme circumstances.  What kind of message does that send out? If you are a scumbag, do what you like because the old bill won't chase you?

Rather than always picking on these guys, why don't we (as a country) support the people trying to uphold the law in difficult circumstances.

Also, I wonder how many of these were 'carpark' type shunts?


And lastly, I used to work for a company with a large fleet, similar in size to police force.  I would say we had 10 times as many daily shunts

Logged
Grumpy old man

Gareth Lewis

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Glossop, Derbyshire
  • Posts: 590
  • eCommerce and Website Design & Implementation
    • View Profile
Re: Police road accidents . . .
« Reply #3 on: 05 May 2009, 12:14:41 »

Quote
Rather than always picking on these guys, why don't we (as a country) support the people trying to uphold the law in difficult circumstances.

Couldn't agree more :y
Logged
[size=11]Website: www.online-selling.co.uk
Successful Website Solutions
eCommerce and Website Design, Management & Implementation[/b]
[/size]

largecol

  • Intermediate Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Middlesbrough
  • Posts: 410
  • I cant see my socks!!
    • View Profile
Re: Police road accidents . . .
« Reply #4 on: 05 May 2009, 12:59:55 »

Quote
Quote
Rather than always picking on these guys, why don't we (as a country) support the people trying to uphold the law in difficult circumstances.

Couldn't agree more :y

While i agree with you chaps in principal, regarding the fleet cars and numbers on the road etc,  these guys supposed to be highly trained advanced drivers, not just your average sales rep handed mondeo keys and told to hit the roads.
Dont get me wrong i`ve every respect for all the emerency services (not just the boys in blue) and the difficult jobs they ALL do, but perhaps, just perhaps there should be a little more accountability when they should be abiding by the same rules of the road as we all have to?
Again, i`m NOT having a pop at them, but some of the `manouvres` i`ve seen with vehicles obviously not responding to a `situation` leaves alot to be desired, and i feel if i`d been spotted doing the same on a public road i would have been relieved of my licence a long time ago.  :-/
Logged
Pssssst! The man in my avatar aint really me!!

tmx

  • Omega Baron
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Herefordshire
  • Posts: 2131
    • 3.2 MV6 2002
    • View Profile
Re: Police road accidents . . .
« Reply #5 on: 05 May 2009, 13:39:05 »

Our local police smashed an omega into a traffic light system at a roundabout caused major cahos they were chasing some "Bad Guys" and so they gave the omega to much stick round a corner and the inevitable happend

was very very funny the police got quite upset with people taking pictures

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw4BFd7zn7o

The car the misrecriants were in was a Subaru WRX impreza so they didnt stand a chance really!

Logged

Chris_H

  • Omega Knight
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • E London/Essex UK
  • Posts: 1716
    • Jag XF Portfolio S 3.0D
    • View Profile
Re: Police road accidents . . .
« Reply #6 on: 05 May 2009, 14:01:25 »

I'm a bit shocked by those figures but it may be down to the wording of the report.  The crash count is followed immediately by some examples of careless driving and says these accounted for some of the crashes.  The implication is that several of the total may have been due to these reasons but that is not what is actually said.

I think I may have been duped into making 2 + 2 = 5 subconsciously.

I'd also like to know what 'causing' means in reality (1st para of report and headline).

Here's to better training for all drivers.
Logged
First Vauxhall - PABX Cresta; Previous, previous Vauxhall - 3.0 12v Senator CD; Previous Vauxhall Omega Elite 3.0V6 Saloon Auto

TheBoy

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Brackley, Northants
  • Posts: 106837
  • I Like Lockdown
    • Whatever Starts
    • View Profile
Re: Police road accidents . . .
« Reply #7 on: 05 May 2009, 14:01:50 »

Quote
Quote
Quote
Rather than always picking on these guys, why don't we (as a country) support the people trying to uphold the law in difficult circumstances.

Couldn't agree more :y

While i agree with you chaps in principal, regarding the fleet cars and numbers on the road etc,  these guys supposed to be highly trained advanced drivers, not just your average sales rep handed mondeo keys and told to hit the roads.
Dont get me wrong i`ve every respect for all the emerency services (not just the boys in blue) and the difficult jobs they ALL do, but perhaps, just perhaps there should be a little more accountability when they should be abiding by the same rules of the road as we all have to?
Again, i`m NOT having a pop at them, but some of the `manouvres` i`ve seen with vehicles obviously not responding to a `situation` leaves alot to be desired, and i feel if i`d been spotted doing the same on a public road i would have been relieved of my licence a long time ago.  :-/
I'm no expert, but was under the impression that only traffic had the advanced training. Std PC Plod driving a Focus panda may well have little extra driver training.


Also, remember some of the most experienced high speed drivers are racing drivers, and they make mistakes ;).

Yes, the police are highly trained, invariably more so than the people they are chasing, which is why its more likely the bad guys stuff it more often than plod...
Logged
Grumpy old man

3.2omegaestate

  • Guest
Re: Police road accidents . . .
« Reply #8 on: 05 May 2009, 14:13:26 »

Firstly it is an interesting news headline as it doesn't provide you with
the sample data
the sample period
total number of police vehicles sample taken from
doesn't consider forces have different policies as TB says

which are all necessary criteria when using statistics and interpreting them.

Consider this headline

100 % increase in burglaries in area, in the last year!!!

What this could mean - there has been 1 and it has increased to 2 or more worringly there was 20 and it has increased to 40. Both scenarios fit the headline though.

In relation to police driving,

Police officers are not exempt from road traffic legislation and this has to be adhered to unless specific exemptions are claimed under the road traffic act.
These broadly summarised are; speed exemptions, red traffic lights - to be treated as give ways, keep left and keep right sign - can be deviated from and the use of seat belts IF it were to hinder the vehicle for a policing purpose (and that doen't include getting lunch!).

Any use of the exemption has to be justifiable and the driver and possibly others are accountable for their use and application of it.

A court can also retrospectively remove the right for them to claim their exemptions under the road traffic act as previously described, if there is other evidence of driving which is either inconsiderate, careless or dangerous driving. Therefore, an officer in court for any of these offences and also claiming an exemption under legislation, can expect to also be prosecuted for the matter to which the exemption applied.

Like anyone, officers if caught, are dealt with, either informally or formally, no different to any other motorist. Largecol, you obviously saw a police officer carrying out an illegal manoeuvre - did you take the trouble to report them? If not, then you only have yourself to take issue with. A person will only amend their behaviour if it is challenged or they receive a sanction.

If this debate/ discussion is to continue then applications to all 43 police services need to be made under the freedom of information act asking for

the number of police authority owned leased or hired vehicles in their fleet within the last tax year
the number of reported collisions that occured with breakdown of injury, non injury, fatal, vicinity (where a suspect is being pursued and crashes but the police vehicle does not collide)
the number of instances of complaints against officers contravening road traffic legislation
the number of those resolved informally
the number of those resolved through the judicial process


Only once we are in possession of the data are we in a position to comment, as to what the statistics mean and represent. No I am  not volunteering!!!!

Police officers like anybody else are human, they make mistakes or errors of judgement (too fast etc), and have to live with themselves and the consequences of them, very much like the latest road safety campaign suggests. Any accident occurring through work prosecution or pending prosecution must be declared to an individuals insurance company; as they ask the question 'have you been involved in any accidents in the last x years'; failure to declare is fraud. Mr Mondeo man has his insurance provided by his company, police officers have their own private policies to which they must declare any accidents either at work or in their own vehicle.

We all commit wrong doings every now and again, whether it be speeding, or dropping a piece of litter (throwing a fag end out of the car is littering) but it doesn't make the news unless it is very serious. There have been some interesting admissions and comments on here if you look back.

The police are in the public eye and have the support of them, this headline does nothing to help that support them.

How about publicising the heroic work of the police such as diving into raw sewage to recover a murder weapon, giving mouth to mouth to someone unknown to the officer, no of course not, these aren't news worthy headlines.

Notice you only get the good news stories when there is no bad news.

 :-?
« Last Edit: 05 May 2009, 14:30:42 by 3.2omegaestate »
Logged

Gareth Lewis

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Glossop, Derbyshire
  • Posts: 590
  • eCommerce and Website Design & Implementation
    • View Profile
Re: Police road accidents . . .
« Reply #9 on: 05 May 2009, 14:26:34 »

Quote
....... are dealt with, either informally or formally, no different to any other motorist. Gareth, you obviously saw a police officer carrying out an illegal manoeuvre

Sorry 3.2 Omegaestate - wrong person. It wasn't my post. ;)

I have nothing but praise for what the vast majority do. :)
« Last Edit: 05 May 2009, 14:27:09 by Gareth_Lewis »
Logged
[size=11]Website: www.online-selling.co.uk
Successful Website Solutions
eCommerce and Website Design, Management & Implementation[/b]
[/size]

3.2omegaestate

  • Guest
Re: Police road accidents . . .
« Reply #10 on: 05 May 2009, 14:34:13 »

Gareth

Sorry that I misquoted.

I misread the forum, and the way it quotes people.

Once again my apologies.

Logged

CaptainZok

  • Omega Lord
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Bolton
  • Posts: 8093
  • Victim of Cyberbullying.
    • 3.2 MV6 Estate
    • View Profile
Re: Police road accidents . . .
« Reply #11 on: 05 May 2009, 14:35:13 »

I'm sure if you took the accident statistics from any large national companies fleet you could create a story to paint their drivers in as bad if not worse a picture but that wouldn't sell newspapers would it?
Lies, damned lies, and statistics as the saying goes.
Logged
PM me for code reading/clearing
TuBy's new whipping boy.

webby23

  • Omega Baron
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Nottingham
  • Posts: 2468
  • MV6
    • View Profile
Re: Police road accidents . . .
« Reply #12 on: 05 May 2009, 15:44:28 »

This is the reason I would never ever ever buy an ex plod car.....whoever believes they are cherished, well maintained cars is kidding themselves....

They are tools that the coppers use to do a job, and if needs must, the copper will think nothing of thrashing the car or damaging it if need be too........

 :y
Logged
The only certainty of life is death. Live your life and enjoy it. The clock is ticking

tmx

  • Omega Baron
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Herefordshire
  • Posts: 2131
    • 3.2 MV6 2002
    • View Profile
Re: Police road accidents . . .
« Reply #13 on: 05 May 2009, 16:50:14 »

Since the omega incident our local lot have had T5 Estates they still have an omega saloon out ledbury way
Logged

crazyjoetavola

  • Guest
Re: Police road accidents . . .
« Reply #14 on: 05 May 2009, 17:13:23 »

Quote
No, not surprised at all.  Even with all the training, driving at speed trying to stop the bad guys is inherently dangerous.

I know, due to the bad publicity after an accident, some forces now no longer do pursuits except in extreme circumstances.  What kind of message does that send out? If you are a scumbag, do what you like because the old bill won't chase you?

Rather than always picking on these guys, why don't we (as a country) support the people trying to uphold the law in difficult circumstances.

Also, I wonder how many of these were 'carpark' type shunts?


And lastly, I used to work for a company with a large fleet, similar in size to police force.  I would say we had 10 times as many daily shunts



Thank you TB :y :y
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3  All   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.015 seconds with 17 queries.