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[p j morgan]

I think they do a very good job .in the nottinghamshire area the traffic cops use the T5 volvo's and if a perssute is dangerous  they pull back and bring the helicopter in .most of the car theives are kids joyriding and they do not give a damn if they kill anybody or not .the traffic cops have a lot to put up with  

[3.2omegaestate]

To be fair guys, all excellent points, and all are valid. As i said previously, i`m fully behind ALL emergency services, in respects to the hard - sometimes dirty, stressful work they do to keep us safe. I suppose its the same as any profession, the minority get the majority a bad name through their actions.
Largecol, you obviously saw a police officer carrying out an illegal manoeuvre - did you take the trouble to report them? If not, then you only have yourself to take issue with.
Indeed i did report an unmarked Skoda RS racing a full-liveried Volvo (twice between 2 roundabouts on a dual carriageway - i gave full details of time, location and (since they came past twice i had time) both registrations, that incident occurred over 6 months ago. Never had any feedback since . . . . .  

Largecol you have identified one of the issues about modern day policing, there is not two way commuinication all of the time; you expected to, and rightly so, get an explanation for the officers driving. Whether it be driver training, responding (they do not need to use blues and twos to utilise the exemptions, like the horn they are warning instruments and sirens should not be used during the hours of darkness) or was it two officers acting illegally, outside of force policy and irresponsibly. You did not receive an explanation for whatever reason, and understandably your feelings are one of what appears to be resentment (maybe slight, I don't know) and a marred image of the police service as a whole, despite having support and praise for them generally.

Your experience Largecol, possibly, is representative of a large proportion of the uk public and this is impacting on the public perception of the police.

A change in how the management within the police view and implement effective performance measures will take the pressure of officers to achieve quantifiable key performance indicators (KPI).

This, together with effective challenges of unacceptable and/ or inappropriate behaviour, by officers, should redirect the scales in favour of quality of service. There is a lot of support for the police,  managers need to embrace this support and nurture it.

Unfortunately, KPI's are laid down by the home office from government, but that's another debate for a cold long wet rainy day !!



 

[Cybertrucker]

Statistics are a very dangerous thing to quote in my view, as they can be manipulated to fit what you want.

Agreed, and the police themselves have become very good at manipulating statistics, for example to justify carpet-bombing the country with cameras and speeding tickets.

[Cybertrucker]

There is a lot of support for the police,  managers need to embrace this support and nurture it.

There WAS a lot of support for the police, but it's dwindled now.  I make no secret of the fact that I have very little time for the police, but for 14 years I had so much time for the police that I gave up a lot of that time to wear the uniform and serve alongside them out on the streets.  (I have a long service medal to prove it!)  Now, if they've lost MY support what do they think has happened to their support from the general public, who at the best of times may have regarded them as something of a necessary evil?

Okay, people argue that it's not the fault of the police when prolific burglars are let off with suspended sentences, etc etc, and this is quite true.  However, it IS the fault of the police when they don't bother to come out when your house is burgled or your car stolen, you're just given a crime reference number over the phone by a civilian employee.  It IS their fault when they don't bother to investigate burglar alarms which have been set off in houses and business premises.  It IS their fault when they don't seem to be interested in protecting us from society's low-lifes yet pursue you to the end of the Earth to get their sixty quid when you've done 34 in a 30.

They could start by dropping the idea of 'managers'.  They're not running a branch of Boots, they're a uniformed service which is supposed to be protecting us.  They even refer to 'customers'.  Customers!  I never had customers, I swore an oath to protect the Queen's subjects.  'Customers' are people who have a choice whether they use your services, but people have no choice about using the services of the police - they're either forced into contact with the police because someone has committed an offence against them, or they're brought in in handcuffs.

When I joined the police in 1980 the overriding ethos, right from the Chief Constable down to me, was that we were there to serve the public.  By the time I left 14 years later I was starting to get the impression, which has grown stronger over the years I've been a civilian again, that the police are there mainly to serve the police.

[Martin_1962]

I used to have more respect for the Police than I do now, I never see any around these days, where are they?

I remember them turning up after I called them after a break in near where I used to live, another woken up person caught the burglar - I saw the chase from the comfort of a phone box. Police turned up in a couple of minutes.

I called while the crim was still bumburglaring a laundarette, ran to nearest phone.

I kept away as I was armed for self defence.

Police were good here.

[TheBoy]

I used to have more respect for the Police than I do now, I never see any around these days, where are they?

I remember them turning up after I called them after a break in near where I used to live, another woken up person caught the burglar - I saw the chase from the comfort of a phone box. Police turned up in a couple of minutes.

I called while the crim was still bumburglaring a laundarette, ran to nearest phone.

I kept away as I was armed for self defence.

Police were good here.

at the station, filling in paperwork explaining why they entered a pursuit  

[tmx]

I used to have more respect for the Police than I do now, I never see any around these days, where are they?

I remember them turning up after I called them after a break in near where I used to live, another woken up person caught the burglar - I saw the chase from the comfort of a phone box. Police turned up in a couple of minutes.

I called while the crim was still bumburglaring a laundarette, ran to nearest phone.

I kept away as I was armed for self defence.

Police were good here.

Theyre All At Hindlip Hall Martin Doing Training Courses

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Rather than always picking on these guys, why don't we (as a country) support the people trying to uphold the law in difficult circumstances.

Couldn't agree more

While i agree with you chaps in principal, regarding the fleet cars and numbers on the road etc,  these guys supposed to be highly trained advanced drivers, not just your average sales rep handed mondeo keys and told to hit the roads.
Dont get me wrong i`ve every respect for all the emerency services (not just the boys in blue) and the difficult jobs they ALL do, but perhaps, just perhaps there should be a little more accountability when they should be abiding by the same rules of the road as we all have to?
Again, i`m NOT having a pop at them, but some of the `manouvres` i`ve seen with vehicles obviously not responding to a `situation` leaves alot to be desired, and i feel if i`d been spotted doing the same on a public road i would have been relieved of my licence a long time ago.  :-/

I'm no expert, but was under the impression that only traffic had the advanced training. Std PC Plod driving a Focus panda may well have little extra driver training.


Also, remember some of the most experienced high speed drivers are racing drivers, and they make mistakes .

Yes, the police are highly trained, invariably more so than the people they are chasing, which is why its more likely the bad guys stuff it more often than plod...

Indeed TB

In Kent many PC's are at 'basic' driving level, which means they cannot respond to any call other than driving as a civilian would, obeying the speed restrictions, stopping at red lights, etc, along with not being permitted to use the two's & blue's whilst in motion, and only using the blue lights when stationery protecting the scene, or dealing with an incident. But every shift should have at least one 'standard' trained driver on duty.

The 'standard' trained PC's can respond to calls using the blue & two's and, as has been already stated, are allowed certain exemptions under the Road Traffic Act when responding to an emergency situation, but are still held responsible when things 'go wrong'.  

The Advanced 'A' drivers only are permitted to enter into high speed pursuits, which their training has given them the tools to do.  However, they are still held responsible in law when 'things go wrong'.

Overall police officers have to do a very difficult job, where life or death situations can arise, with crucial speedy decisions having to be made, to give assistance to the public.  Sometimes things go wrong, although the PC has just been trying to do their job to the best of their ability. 8-) 8-)

Life is not perfect, even for police officers!!

[NaughtyNigel]

Indeed TB

In Kent many PC's are at 'basic' driving level, which means they cannot respond to any call other than driving as a civilian would, obeying the speed restrictions, stopping at red lights, etc, along with not being permitted to use the two's & blue's whilst in motion, and only using the blue lights when stationery protecting the scene, or dealing with an incident. But every shift should have at least one 'standard' trained driver on duty.

The 'standard' trained PC's can respond to calls using the blue & two's and, as has been already stated, are allowed certain exemptions under the Road Traffic Act when responding to an emergency situation, but are still held responsible when things 'go wrong'.  

The Advanced 'A' drivers only are permitted to enter into high speed pursuits, which their training has given them the tools to do.  However, they are still held responsible in law when 'things go wrong'.

Overall police officers have to do a very difficult job, where life or death situations can arise, with crucial speedy decisions having to be made, to give assistance to the public.  Sometimes things go wrong, although the PC has just been trying to do their job to the best of their ability. 8-) 8-)

Life is not perfect, even for police officers!!

Most of the Police drivers do a good enough job, (the motorcyclists tend to better for obvious reasons - they don't want to get hurt), but I often feel they could do with some real racing experience.

It is all well being 'trained' to drive at speed, and to control a car on a skid pan, but there is nothing like a real chase, as the adrenalin rush that follows can make the most reasoned and level-headed Cop do silly things - sometimes with fatal consequences. Those with racing experience are well used to this effect, and so know how to deal with it, sometimes over long distances, and don't let it cloud their judgement.

To illustrate this, some years ago I was out on my bike (a very well fettled 350 LC Yamaha) early one Saturday morning , and was enjoying the fast, sweeping curves and long straights on the A272 between Petersfield and the A31 at Winchester. (This was before they spoilt it with silly roundabouts and the like).

Anyhow, as I came into Winchester itself, I was aware of a Police bike coming up rapidly behind me, so as I was entering a 30 limit I slowed down to 30 MPH, and just cruised along trying to look innocent.  It was a good try, but I got pulled over all the same, and the Copper was shaking so violently with adrenalin that I had to put his bike (a Police Norton) on it's stand for him and sit him down on a nearby bench!

It turned out that he had been chasing me all the way from Petersfield, and had been hitting 120 plus on the straights, but every time we got to the bendy bits he 'had to slow down in the interests of safety'. He admitted that at one point he thought he had lost me, (just after the East Meon Hut), but he could still smell the Castrol R from my bike, so he knew I was somewhere ahead.  

Once he calmed down he gave me a good bollocking, and was going to throw the book at me, but thankfully I managed to persuade him that he was probably a greater risk to himself than I was.  He also gave me a lecture about using tyres with 'not for highway use' stamped on them, but that is another story.  

NN

[HolyCount]

There is a lot of support for the police,  managers need to embrace this support and nurture it.

There WAS a lot of support for the police, but it's dwindled now.  I make no secret of the fact that I have very little time for the police, but for 14 years I had so much time for the police that I gave up a lot of that time to wear the uniform and serve alongside them out on the streets.  (I have a long service medal to prove it!)  Now, if they've lost MY support what do they think has happened to their support from the general public, who at the best of times may have regarded them as something of a necessary evil?

Okay, people argue that it's not the fault of the police when prolific burglars are let off with suspended sentences, etc etc, and this is quite true.  However, it IS the fault of the police when they don't bother to come out when your house is burgled or your car stolen, you're just given a crime reference number over the phone by a civilian employee.  It IS their fault when they don't bother to investigate burglar alarms which have been set off in houses and business premises.  It IS their fault when they don't seem to be interested in protecting us from society's low-lifes yet pursue you to the end of the Earth to get their sixty quid when you've done 34 in a 30.

They could start by dropping the idea of 'managers'.  They're not running a branch of Boots, they're a uniformed service which is supposed to be protecting us.  They even refer to 'customers'.  Customers!  I never had customers, I swore an oath to protect the Queen's subjects.  'Customers' are people who have a choice whether they use your services, but people have no choice about using the services of the police - they're either forced into contact with the police because someone has committed an offence against them, or they're brought in in handcuffs.

When I joined the police in 1980 the overriding ethos, right from the Chief Constable down to me, was that we were there to serve the public.  By the time I left 14 years later I was starting to get the impression, which has grown stronger over the years I've been a civilian again, that the police are there mainly to serve the police.

Very well put Cyber.  Policing has been overtaken by politics, target hunting and economics. the public they are sworn to protect have become an obstacle to all of the above and the police officers themselves have become jaded by being blocked at every avenue from actually doing the job.

[Cybertrucker]

The police are being destroyed from the top - a writer in the Daily Mail said "One of the most dangerous organisations in Britain is ACPO - the Association of Chief Police Officers."  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/columnists/article-418721/Now-chief-constables-work-soppy-liberals.html.  The Daily Mail!  Surely if any paper is going to support the police it's going to be the Mail!  They've really lost it if the paper of middle-class Middle England describes Chief Constables as "One of the most dangerous organisations in Britain".

Mind you, they don't spend all their time remodelling the police along the lines of 1960's sociology lecturers, they manage to find time to feather their own nests.  How many of you know that ACPO has set up a private company, currently turning over 18 million a year, doing things like selling information from the Police National Computer (charging £70 for information which costs them 60p to obtain) and training speed camera operators?  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1145581/Body-charge-UK-policing-policy-18m-year-brand-charging-public-70-60p-criminal-records-check.html

How can anyone respect an organisation run by these people?