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[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

YES, I AM SHOUTING. 

I can't contain myself anymore. I really enjoy reading all the little titbits on here, everything from jokes about caravans to discussions about what we're havng for tea. I also appreciate that many of you have no interest in politics. But it's time to wake up.

What if I told you that in Copenhagen in December (if things go the way they're intended), Brown, Obama and the others will sign a treaty which will effectively give away our wealth to the developing world, North Korea, Pakistan, Venezuela – indeed, anywhere you care to name, as long as it's not a western industrialised country. Not only will we sign away huge amounts of our wealth, but we will also sink our economies with crippling emission reduction schemes.

This is not a joke, guys. You can read a link here and also link to the UN's proposed treaty.

http://noconsensus.wordpress.com/2009/10/16/all-governments-are-created-equal/

Viscount Monkton of Brenchley (who no doubt Bannjaax will try to rubbish) has even suggested that US sovereignty will be ceded if the US signs up.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/10/16/obama-poised-to-cede-us-sovereignty-in-copenhagen-claims-british-lord-monckton/

Remember this is designed to take place in December in Copenhagen. Don't say I didn't warn you.

 

So....... what is so very wrong with the wealthy countries of the world helping the less fortunate?.
Not everything in the world needs to be about profit.

As for the emissions reduction scheme......it is almost inevitable that it will come to this in the near future.

"The price tag for a new climate agreement will be a staggering $100 billion a year by 2020, many economists estimate; some put the cost at closer to $1 trillion. That money is needed to help fast-developing countries like India and Brazil convert to costly but cleaner technologies as they industrialize, as well as to assist the poorest countries in coping with the consequences of climate change, like droughts and rising seas."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/15/science/earth/15climate.html?_r=4&hpw

There are NO consequences of climate change like rising sea levels and drought that require such sums of money. Name one.

As for saying "what is so very wrong with the wealthy countries of the world helping the less fortunate", have you checked out the amount of foreign aid that we (the Western industrialised) cough up each year?

Look if you want a socialist one-world government, then come out and say it. I don't and I never will. 

Not for me thanks.(we actually agree on this point) ..........but the idea that unbridled.......unregulated.........  market forces capitalism takes us all to Utopia.....is laughable........it has clearly failed. :-/ :-/

[Nickbat]

For open-minded readers:

http://euro-med.dk/?p=11097

[Nickbat]

Optimist writes: "market forces capitalism takes us all to Utopia.....is laughable........it has clearly failed."

Why then, are the cleanest countries, environmentally-speaking, all capitalist?

 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I have just had to Google this guy..... ......climate change sceptic.....big time...Not a major authority in my view.

...who would be such an authority then Optio - in your view?

Not a single individual... Zulu..........but we have a choice between thirty years ........or more.....of eminent scientists.....and climatologists......looking into global warming.....or......Nickbats lot.
I 'am quite willing to be proved wrong however.

...working to who's agenda I wonder Optio :-/ :-/

Working in a measured ......balanced......... and objective manner.......Zulu.......I hope

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Optimist writes: "market forces capitalism takes us all to Utopia.....is laughable........it has clearly failed."

Why then, are the cleanest countries, environmentally-speaking, all capitalist?

Utopia......needs to be more than just clean nickbat......much more.......

 

[Dishevelled Den]

Working in a measured ......balanced......... and objective manner.......Zulu.......I hope

....as do I O :-/ :-/

[Nickbat]

Apple, that darling company of the liberal elite, has relocated most of its manufacturing to China (oh, and Al Gore is a director). It has just resigned from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce because the latter has threatened legal action against the EPA which, in turn, has directed that CO2 is a pollutant.

http://www.c3headlines.com/2009/10/apple-loves-dirty-china-al-gores-apple-iphone-pursues-largest-consumer-market-in-world-also-worlds-biggest-polluter.html

But:

 Xie Zhenhua, the lead Chinese climate negotiator, speaking at a news conference in New York last month, said the United Nations should not expect China to pay.

“Global warming is a result of CO2 from developed countries during their industrialization,” Mr. Xie said. “China is one of the countries that has borne the brunt of that.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/15/science/earth/15climate.html?_r=3&hpw

So , here we have an Al Gore company, leaving the shores of the relatively clean US to manufacture in the now incredibly-rich China, which wants us to pay it loads of money. Meanwhile, the Chinese public protest against pollution...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/sep/02/anti-pollution-riot-china

Wake up, Optimist! 

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

Apple, that darling company of the liberal elite, has relocated most of its manufacturing to China (oh, and Al Gore is a director). It has just resigned from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce because the latter has threatened legal action against the EPA which, in turn, has directed that CO2 is a pollutant.

http://www.c3headlines.com/2009/10/apple-loves-dirty-china-al-gores-apple-iphone-pursues-largest-consumer-market-in-world-also-worlds-biggest-polluter.html

But:

 Xie Zhenhua, the lead Chinese climate negotiator, speaking at a news conference in New York last month, said the United Nations should not expect China to pay.

“Global warming is a result of CO2 from developed countries during their industrialization,” Mr. Xie said. “China is one of the countries that has borne the brunt of that.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/15/science/earth/15climate.html?_r=3&hpw

So , here we have an Al Gore company, leaving the shores of the relatively clean US to manufacture in the now incredibly-rich China, which wants us to pay it loads of money. Meanwhile, the Chinese public protest against pollution...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/sep/02/anti-pollution-riot-china

Wake up, Optimist! 

So angry ......yet again Nickbat.. .......is it any wonder that Bannjaxx and I .....yank your chain(in jest ).......every now and again.
You seem to take it very personally ......when another person takes a different view from your own entrenched position.
With regard to global warming.....could I be wrong?..........YES OF COURSE I COULD.......is it likely?. .....................Well...... with the PROFESSIONAL evidence available at the moment....I think not.
Is it just possible that you could be wrong Nickbat?.

[Varche]

Not much new with all this really except perhaps the scale.

- people living the high life in London have been paying for years to improve the life of those in say Tyneside (succesfully)

- People living in wealthy Britain have been paying for years to improve the life of those in say Spain (successfully)

- I dare say those living in silicone valley in the West coast of the good old US of A paid to improve the lives of the dirt farmers in the Mid West.

And so the cycle continues. The one thing that doesn't change is the people paying STILL continue to have a very comfortable life. Think of it as helping out a less priviledged neighbour (remember when people did that?) rather than some sinister plot.

Varche

[albitz]

Not much new with all this really except perhaps the scale.

- people living the high life in London have been paying for years to improve the life of those in say Tyneside (succesfully)
-And they shouldnt have been
- People living in wealthy Britain have been paying for years to improve the life of those in say Spain (successfully)
-And they shouldnt have been.And it is a perfect demonstration of why we should tell the EU to poke it.
- I dare say those living in silicone valley in the West coast of the good old US of A paid to improve the lives of the dirt farmers in the Mid West. -No they havent,America isnt (or wasnt) a socialist country,they believe if you want it you work for it,like we used to.
And so the cycle continues. The one thing that doesn't change is the people paying STILL continue to have a very comfortable life. Think of it as helping out a less priviledged neighbour (remember when people did that?) rather than some sinister plot.

Varche

Neighbours being charitable to one another is a vastly different concept,to National government removing the wealth of its citizens from them and redistributing it in any way they see fit.Its morally wrong and it has been proved many times not to work.

[Dishevelled Den]

Not much new with all this really except perhaps the scale.

- people living the high life in London have been paying for years to improve the life of those in say Tyneside (succesfully)

- People living in wealthy Britain have been paying for years to improve the life of those in say Spain (successfully)

- I dare say those living in silicone valley in the West coast of the good old US of A paid to improve the lives of the dirt farmers in the Mid West.

And so the cycle continues. The one thing that doesn't change is the people paying STILL continue to have a very comfortable life. Think of it as helping out a less priviledged neighbour (remember when people did that?) rather than some sinister plot.
Varche

....I always enjoy your pieces V, but that analysis I cannot agree with as the proposals amount to much more than 'helping out' in a neighbourly fashion.

[Nickbat]

So angry ......yet again Nickbat.. .......is it any wonder that Bannjaxx and I .....yank your chain(in jest ).......every now and again.
You seem to take it very personally ......when another person takes a different view from your own entrenched position.
With regard to global warming.....could I be wrong?..........YES OF COURSE I COULD.......is it likely?. .....................Well...... with the PROFESSIONAL evidence available at the moment....I think not.
Is it just possible that you could be wrong Nickbat?.

Yes, I am angry. And I will continue to be angry because I have two young children who deserve to live in a free world. There is nothing free about the world envisaged by the environmentalists. Why, they even suggest we should have carbon ration cards, so that every time we buy fuel or travel, it would be limited to our budget (and recorded by the government).

No, after all I have read, I do not believe in the climate scam. My doubts are reinforced by the refusal to hand over data for independent scrutiny, by the bizarre "loss" of data by the Hadley Centre, by the censoring of all sceptical comments by The Guardian and others. The list goes on.

Furthermore, even if global warming were true, the catastrophes suggested by the warmists are many decades off and only technological advances, paid for by the Western industrialised nations, will provide alternatives to fossil fuel use.

I am angry when it seems this country is so absorbed by Corrie and Boyzone that they fail to lift their eyes and notice the elephant in the room.      

[Dishevelled Den]

Yes, I am angry. And I will continue to be angry because I have two young children who deserve to live in a free world. There is nothing free about the world envisaged by the environmentalists. Why, they even suggest we should have carbon ration cards, so that every time we buy fuel or travel, it would be limited to our budget (and recorded by the government).

No, after all I have read, I do not believe in the climate scam. My doubts are reinforced by the refusal to hand over data for independent scrutiny, by the bizarre "loss" of data by the Hadley Centre, by the censoring of all sceptical comments by The Guardian and others. The list goes on.

Furthermore, even if global warming were true, the catastrophes suggested by the warmists are many decades off and only technological advances, paid for by the Western industrialised nations, will provide alternatives to fossil fuel use.

I am angry when it seems this country is so absorbed by Corrie and Boyzone that they fail to lift their eyes and notice the elephant in the room.      

they even suggest we should have carbon ration cards, so that every time we buy fuel or travel, it would be limited to our budget (and recorded by the government)

...an example of what is to come if the outlandish proposals are not challenged.


I am angry when it seems this country is so absorbed by Corrie and Boyzone that they fail to lift their eyes and notice the elephant in the room.

....you are right to be as this is the most likely reason for these proposals to be allowed to edge their way up the legislative agenda without challenge past a populace, a surprising number of whom, seem blissfully unaware of the dreadful consequences

[Banjax]

theres seems to be some confusion here Nickbat - i'm interested in how you go about your day to day life, trusting nothing that "they" tell you - if your watch says its 4pm how can you be sure that isn't just what they want you to think? you're displaying classic paranoid symptoms - let me ask you some multiple choice questions:

1) do you wear a tin foil hat incase the government try to steal your thoughts?
a) don't be ridiculous
b) i used to, but not anymore
c) who told you about the tin foil hat?

2) you're happy to pay tax to fund banker bonuses, yet you foam at the mouth at the very idea a smidgeon of tax goes to help poorer, developing countries. Why is this?
a) i am a banker
b) i'm livid at the thought of helping anyone other than myself
c) seriously, who told you about the tin foil hat?

3) I refuse to believe in man-made climate change - it's all one big con and I protest. Is this statement true or false?
a) True - I am a climate change protestor
b) False - I am not a climate change protestor

[Dishevelled Den]

theres seems to be some confusion here Nickbat - i'm interested in how you go about your day to day life, trusting nothing that "they" tell you - if your watch says its 4pm how can you be sure that isn't just what they want you to think? you're displaying classic paranoid symptoms - let me ask you some multiple choice questions:

1) do you wear a tin foil hat incase the government try to steal your thoughts?
a) don't be ridiculous
b) i used to, but not anymore
c) who told you about the tin foil hat?

2) you're happy to pay tax to fund banker bonuses, yet you foam at the mouth at the very idea a smidgeon of tax goes to help poorer, developing countries. Why is this?
a) i am a banker
b) i'm livid at the thought of helping anyone other than myself
c) seriously, who told you about the tin foil hat?

3) I refuse to believe in man-made climate change - it's all one big con and I protest. Is this statement true or false?
a) True - I am a climate change protestor
b) False - I am not a climate change protestor

  and so it begins, the typical age old trick of discrediting the contrary view, by any means possible - really bj!