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[Lizzie_Zoom]

I don't think this thread should have been started. None of us can possibly know the truth behind any of this, it is mired in propoganda and secrecy. There are people on here who spot a news story and wade straight in, without thinking of the consequences. We have Jewish people on the forum, Arabs and, obviously, Cem, who's country is directly involved. Take a deep breathe or this will get nasty when you all start on your wine later.

I agree that this thread should not have been started, or if it had to be started, some people should have refrained from wading in so deeply until more facts become known.

......seems quite well mannered and restrained to me.....so far at least.... .  Was it not Israel involved in the passport fiasco recently?.

Yes Optimist, another prooved illegal act by the poor 'victim' Israel!!

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I don't think this thread should have been started. None of us can possibly know the truth behind any of this, it is mired in propoganda and secrecy. There are people on here who spot a news story and wade straight in, without thinking of the consequences. We have Jewish people on the forum, Arabs and, obviously, Cem, who's country is directly involved. Take a deep breathe or this will get nasty when you all start on your wine later.

I agree that this thread should not have been started, or if it had to be started, some people should have refrained from wading in so deeply until more facts become known.

......seems quite well mannered and restrained to me.....so far at least.... .  Was it not Israel involved in the passport fiasco recently?.

Yes Optimist, another prooved illegal act by the poor 'victim' Israel!!

......international law ......does not apply to Israel.. Lizzie

[Nickbat]

I don't think this thread should have been started. None of us can possibly know the truth behind any of this, it is mired in propoganda and secrecy. There are people on here who spot a news story and wade straight in, without thinking of the consequences. We have Jewish people on the forum, Arabs and, obviously, Cem, who's country is directly involved. Take a deep breathe or this will get nasty when you all start on your wine later.

I agree that this thread should not have been started, or if it had to be started, some people should have refrained from wading in so deeply until more facts become known.

Have you not watched and listened to the reports, the comments from many sources, from all different backgrounds and countries, let alone read the quotes in this thread and comments from others like me who have watched the Palestinian question develop over years Nick? :-/ :-/ :-/

So you can post threads on limited, argued 'facts' on Eco issues, but no one can express their opinions based on facts on a very, very serious issue?

Oh well that is your opinion, but I am so glad you are not at the head of a democracy! 

I am not talking about the Palestinian question, per se, merely the knee-jerk comments surrounding this morning's incident.

Perhaps this report provides some welcome balance:

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/05/31/bloody-clash-off-gaza-coast-leaves-10-dead/

Had the initial thread concerned the more general question of the Middle East (which it didn't) I would have happily contributed with my view that the only way forward lies in a two-state solution. I would further add that the greater obstacle to that lies with Hamas. 

[cem_devecioglu]

I don't think this thread should have been started. None of us can possibly know the truth behind any of this, it is mired in propoganda and secrecy. There are people on here who spot a news story and wade straight in, without thinking of the consequences. We have Jewish people on the forum, Arabs and, obviously, Cem, who's country is directly involved. Take a deep breathe or this will get nasty when you all start on your wine later.

I agree that this thread should not have been started, or if it had to be started, some people should have refrained from wading in so deeply until more facts become known.

Have you not watched and listened to the reports, the comments from many sources, from all different backgrounds and countries, let alone read the quotes in this thread and comments from others like me who have watched the Palestinian question develop over years Nick? :-/ :-/ :-/

So you can post threads on limited, argued 'facts' on Eco issues, but no one can express their opinions based on facts on a very, very serious issue?

Oh well that is your opinion, but I am so glad you are not at the head of a democracy! 

I am not talking about the Palestinian question, per se, merely the knee-jerk comments surrounding this morning's incident.

Perhaps this report provides some welcome balance:

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/05/31/bloody-clash-off-gaza-coast-leaves-10-dead/

Had the initial thread concerned the more general question of the Middle East (which it didn't) I would have happily contributed with my view that the only way forward lies in a two-state solution. I would further add that the greater obstacle to that lies with Hamas. 

there was a live evidence by our tv channels..

and the truth is very different than the article..

[Lizzie_Zoom]

I don't think this thread should have been started. None of us can possibly know the truth behind any of this, it is mired in propoganda and secrecy. There are people on here who spot a news story and wade straight in, without thinking of the consequences. We have Jewish people on the forum, Arabs and, obviously, Cem, who's country is directly involved. Take a deep breathe or this will get nasty when you all start on your wine later.

I agree that this thread should not have been started, or if it had to be started, some people should have refrained from wading in so deeply until more facts become known.

Have you not watched and listened to the reports, the comments from many sources, from all different backgrounds and countries, let alone read the quotes in this thread and comments from others like me who have watched the Palestinian question develop over years Nick? :-/ :-/ :-/

So you can post threads on limited, argued 'facts' on Eco issues, but no one can express their opinions based on facts on a very, very serious issue?

Oh well that is your opinion, but I am so glad you are not at the head of a democracy! 

I am not talking about the Palestinian question, per se, merely the knee-jerk comments surrounding this morning's incident.

Perhaps this report provides some welcome balance:

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/05/31/bloody-clash-off-gaza-coast-leaves-10-dead/

Had the initial thread concerned the more general question of the Middle East (which it didn't) I would have happily contributed with my view that the only way forward lies in a two-state solution. I would further add that the greater obstacle to that lies with Hamas. 

Sorry Nick but that link gives no more facts than the initial ones reported by the international news channels and political observers:

The Israeli's stormed the six Turkish flagged and internationally crewed vessels with fully armed commandos and killed between 10 - 19, in International waters, in support of their illegal embargo of Gaza in defiance of UN wishes, and as a continual programme of aggression against the people of Palestine.

Those facts have been apparent all day Nick, and have been widely internationally condemed.  No one, least of all me 'jumped in' with this post without knowing the widespread reported 'facts', and the history of this appalling continuing act against the human rights of the Palestinians.  Israel as a 'victim' just does not wash.

Ok Nick you do not agree with my thread, so that is fine.  You do not need to make excusses for not entering into the debate earlier.  As I previously stated at the very beginning of my thread, this IS a very complex issue, as your Eco threads often are, but I suggest of a far more serious nature

 

[Nickbat]

there was a live evidence by our tv channels..

and the truth is very different than the article..

I have yet to come across ANY TV channel that has a monopoly on the truth, Cem. 

[cem_devecioglu]

"However, to their misfortune, they were only equipped with paintball rifles used to disperse minor protests, such as the ones held in Bilin. The paintballs obviously made no impression on the activists, who kept on beating the troops up and even attempted to wrest away their weapons"

yes.. they shoot with paintball rifles and killed people

[Field Marshal Dr. Opti]

I don't think this thread should have been started. None of us can possibly know the truth behind any of this, it is mired in propoganda and secrecy. There are people on here who spot a news story and wade straight in, without thinking of the consequences. We have Jewish people on the forum, Arabs and, obviously, Cem, who's country is directly involved. Take a deep breathe or this will get nasty when you all start on your wine later.

I agree that this thread should not have been started, or if it had to be started, some people should have refrained from wading in so deeply until more facts become known.

Have you not watched and listened to the reports, the comments from many sources, from all different backgrounds and countries, let alone read the quotes in this thread and comments from others like me who have watched the Palestinian question develop over years Nick? :-/ :-/ :-/

So you can post threads on limited, argued 'facts' on Eco issues, but no one can express their opinions based on facts on a very, very serious issue?

Oh well that is your opinion, but I am so glad you are not at the head of a democracy! 

I am not talking about the Palestinian question, per se, merely the knee-jerk comments surrounding this morning's incident.

Perhaps this report provides some welcome balance:

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/05/31/bloody-clash-off-gaza-coast-leaves-10-dead/

Had the initial thread concerned the more general question of the Middle East (which it didn't) I would have happily contributed with my view that the only way forward lies in a two-state solution. I would further add that the greater obstacle to that lies with Hamas. 

Sorry Nick but that link gives no more facts than the initial ones reported by the international news channels and political observers:

The Israeli's stormed the six Turkish flagged and internationally crewed vessels with fully armed commandos and killed between 10 - 19, in International waters, in support of their illegal embargo of Gaza in defiance of UN wishes, and as a continual programme of aggression against the people of Palestine.

Those facts have been apparent all day Nick, and have been widely internationally condemed.  No one, least of all me 'jumped in' with this post without knowing the widespread reported 'facts', and the history of this appalling continuing act against the human rights of the Palestinians.  Israel as a 'victim' just does not wash.

Ok Nick you do not agree with my thread, so that is fine.  You do not need to make excusses for not entering into the debate earlier.  As I previously stated at the very beginning of my thread, this IS a very complex issue, as your Eco threads often are, but I suggest of a far more serious nature

 

Yep....that's about the bones of it...Lizzie.

[albitz]

Those "poor Palestinan people" elected a terrorist govt. (Hamas) - they are now sowing what they have reaped imo.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

"However, to their misfortune, they were only equipped with paintball rifles used to disperse minor protests, such as the ones held in Bilin. The paintballs obviously made no impression on the activists, who kept on beating the troops up and even attempted to wrest away their weapons"

yes.. they shoot with paintball rifles and killed people

Ah Cem, but some people will believe the paintball gun suggestion as Israel is the poor victim, and then state the activists shot themselves!!   I can see it coming!!

[cem_devecioglu]

Those "poor Palestinan people" elected a terrorist govt. (Hamas) - they are now sowing what they have reaped imo.

before Hamas who were there and what happened..

years of violence and hunger of course leads to that..

did you watch the boy that israel soldiers break the arm by stone..

always israel is #1 to shed blood..

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Those "poor Palestinan people" elected a terrorist govt. (Hamas) - they are now sowing what they have reaped imo.

Because they were desperate to find a way of defending themselves against an aggressive neighbour.  They were not prepared to stand there and just take it; just like the French resistance, or Norwegians against the German's. 

Hamas is what the Palestinian people wanted in control, rightly or wrongly, but it is now time for the outside world to call a halt to ALL aggressive actions surrounding Gaza

[albitz]

They have attacked and terrorised Israel for years, and the Israelis wont lie down and give in. They are surrounded by enemies, but will do whatever it takes to stop themselves being overrun by these Arab terrorists. RESPECT.
They wont take any notice of the outside world and nor should they. It was spineless politiicans in Westminster worrying about the outside world that allowed the murder  and mayhem to continue in Northern Ireland for 30 years, when they should have allowed British security forces to put a stop to it much earlier and prevent so much slaughter of many innocent peple.

[Nickbat]

Those "poor Palestinan people" elected a terrorist govt. (Hamas) - they are now sowing what they have reaped imo.

I would largely agree, Albs, although it is probably more a case of Hamas electing themselves through various means.

There is little point, though, in contributing to this one-sided thread as the Gang of Three have already made up their minds and are closed to all other possibilities, IMHO.

I'm out.

[cem_devecioglu]

They have attacked and terroised Israel for years, and the Israelis wont lie down and give in. They are surrounded by enemies, but will do whatever it takes to stop themselves being overrun by these Arab terrorists. RESPECT.

here is the question :
why before israel, those arabs live many years under ottoman empire without any terrorism ?

who pushed them.. do they like to dress bombs and explode as a daily habit ?