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[miked]

I think that countries like Germany were not held back by the industrial relations problems we had then and forged ahead.

Germany is an interesting example.

I lived in Berlin for two years (96 and 97).  The wall came down in 88 (or around then).  Re-unification was only really getting going whilst I was there.  West Germans were (at that time) rather bitter at the investment going into the East, the financial investment in the East was extensive and a tremendous drag on the countries resources.

What stands out to me, looking at our European partners in particular, those countries that manufacture things, physical tangible things is, in my view, reflected in their GDPs.

We don't make anything any more...

Don' t get me wrong.  I don't want to see the back of the financial industry in the UK

However...

Mr. Diamond has just received a bonus package worth over £6M, a total package of over £9M for 2010.

He requested a reduced bonus because he was sensitive to the current ill feeling towards banks and the bonuses they award...

Pay awards on this scale are immoral and quite frankly distasteful.  Many, many innocent people have and are suffering as a consequence of the banking industries reckless  activities.

[Entwood]

Question ....


Why are so many of you so upset at the pay/rewards/bonuses of the financial industry .. but you say not a single word regarding your favourite footballers / golfers / tennis players 

The financial leaders will spend many years learning their trade and building experience, before being put in charge of mega-billion pound companies.

Footballers spend 90 minutes (sometimes) chasing an inflated bladder...

The pay/bonuses these guys are getting are part of a simple thing called a CONTRACT ... you know .. one of those things the footballers ignore and break for a pastime ... the CONTRACT will have stipulated something along the lines of ... "for every million you increase turnover/profitability you will recieve 0.1%"  so when profits rise by 90 billion the bonus is pretty good.

Footballers get a bonus for BREAKINg their contract and signing with a new club, they get a bonus for winning, they get a bonus for every round of the cup they get through ... yet you whinge not ....??

Politics of envy methinks..... perhaps you should have worked harder at school  

[Marks DTM Calib]

I have nothing against bankers getting big bonuses.

And Uk manufacturing is only aroun 11% of GDP now.

A sad state of affairs on the manufacturing front

[miked]

Question ....


Why are so many of you so upset at the pay/rewards/bonuses of the financial industry .. but you say not a single word regarding your favourite footballers / golfers / tennis players 

The financial leaders will spend many years learning their trade and building experience, before being put in charge of mega-billion pound companies.

Footballers spend 90 minutes (sometimes) chasing an inflated bladder...

The pay/bonuses these guys are getting are part of a simple thing called a CONTRACT ... you know .. one of those things the footballers ignore and break for a pastime ... the CONTRACT will have stipulated something along the lines of ... "for every million you increase turnover/profitability you will recieve 0.1%"  so when profits rise by 90 billion the bonus is pretty good.

Footballers get a bonus for BREAKINg their contract and signing with a new club, they get a bonus for winning, they get a bonus for every round of the cup they get through ... yet you whinge not ....??

Politics of envy methinks..... perhaps you should have worked harder at school  

Rather interesting slant on things  :-?

I agree, footballers ARE paid too much.

Golfers are paid less.

Tennis players are paid about the same as Golfers (I think).

Footballers, Golfers and Tennis players did NOT subject their teams (or themselves in the case of Golfers and Tennis players) to reckless, GREEDY short term HIGH RISK (sub prime) 'investments' that required MASSIVE financial input to stop them COLLAPSING, paid for by the TAX payers..... (tried to match the use of capitals!)

Am I envious? really not at all.  A few of my University friends work in the financial industry, one for Barclay's Investment as a matter of fact.

I'm not at home in the city, I enjoy what I do, I am well paid for it and my family and I are very comfortable.

Should I have worked harder at school? most probably.  What that meant was that I had to work even harder at college and then at University to get my honours degree in Instrumentation and Control Engineering.

I take it you work in the financial industry then?

[Entwood]

.......................

I take it you work in the financial industry then?

Nope .. I just pride myself on having an open mind and not regurgitating the pap from the daily mail/mirror/sun/[enter own paper].

There is always more than one side to every story ... the press of the UK seem to want to do nothing but sensationalise everything or cause strife/envy/argument.

Unfrortunately, from reading the threads in General Chat there seem to be many who think the BBC/sun/mirror/mail have the monopoly on accuracy and truth.... my experience is exactly the opposite ..

[Nickbat]

I think the important thing is not to be envious. Remember, if there were no millionaires in this world, there would be no Bugatti Veyrons, no lush hotels, no (in the old days) Concordes. Yes, we could all live in a society where everyone earned the same, but how boring would that be? 

Also remember that there are many common-or-garden workers who rely on the rich for their income (e.g swimming pool fitters and contractors, luxury car mechanics, and so on). If you got rid of the "rich" overnight, an awful lot of workers would lose their jobs.

The politics of envy is not healthy. 

[miked]

.......................

I take it you work in the financial industry then?

Nope .. I just pride myself on having an open mind and not regurgitating the pap from the daily mail/mirror/sun/[enter own paper].

There is always more than one side to every story ... the press of the UK seem to want to do nothing but sensationalise everything or cause strife/envy/argument.

Unfrortunately, from reading the threads in General Chat there seem to be many who think the BBC/sun/mirror/mail have the monopoly on accuracy and truth.... my experience is exactly the opposite ..

I'll not believe everything I read about footballers, golfers and tennis players then.  Thanks for the heads up!

[miked]

no (in the old days) Concordes.

I don't think Concorde ever made a profit, even with the super rich / banker (with a B) 

[Nickbat]

no (in the old days) Concordes.

I don't think Concorde ever made a profit, even with the super rich / banker (with a B) 

Perhaps not, Mike, but never underestimate national pride, it's worth quite a few percentage points. Economics is not just about numbers. Behavioural economics is a discipline in its infancy, but it takes on board a number of psychological influences and is probably more in tune with the real world. Give people pride in their nation and you'll be surprised how production benefits. 

Take it away and ...well, look around you now. 

[miked]

no (in the old days) Concordes.

I don't think Concorde ever made a profit, even with the super rich / banker (with a B) 

Perhaps not, Mike, but never underestimate national pride, it's worth quite a few percentage points. Economics is not just about numbers. Behavioural economics is a discipline in its infancy, but it takes on board a number of psychological influences and is probably more in tune with the real world. Give people pride in their nation and you'll be surprised how production benefits. 

Take it away and ...well, look around you now. 

I totally agree

[Dishevelled Den]

I have nothing against bankers getting big bonuses.

And Uk manufacturing is only aroun 11% of GDP now.

A sad state of affairs on the manufacturing front

I certainly agree.

It's a bloody shame to say the least.  The foundations of the country have been compromised by the allure of the high tech, service and financial industries - howsoever capricious their true worth.

[Marks DTM Calib]

I have nothing against bankers getting big bonuses.

And Uk manufacturing is only aroun 11% of GDP now.

A sad state of affairs on the manufacturing front

I certainly agree.

It's a bloody shame to say the least.  The foundations of the country have been compromised by the allure of the high tech, service and financial industries - howsoever capricious their true worth.

I also think the loss of focus on building a skills base is a major concern to.

Engineering degrees are very out of fashion and the skilled manual workers are no longer being trained.

I would like to hope the new apprentice scheme may be able to help address that but, only time will tell.

[Dishevelled Den]

I have nothing against bankers getting big bonuses.

And Uk manufacturing is only aroun 11% of GDP now.

A sad state of affairs on the manufacturing front

I certainly agree.

It's a bloody shame to say the least.  The foundations of the country have been compromised by the allure of the high tech, service and financial industries - howsoever capricious their true worth.

I also think the loss of focus on building a skills base is a major concern to.

Engineering degrees are very out of fashion and the skilled manual workers are no longer being trained.

I would like to hope the new apprentice scheme may be able to help address that but, only time will tell.

Yes, correct again - if the basics are unsound, no amount of window dressing - however much in keeping with the current trend - will produce a satisfactory result or generate conditions where the nation can create and maintain real wealth.

It seems to me that these practical skills will be needed sooner rather than later judging by the international situation.

[tunnie]

no (in the old days) Concordes.

I don't think Concorde ever made a profit, even with the super rich / banker (with a B) 

Ohhh yes it did 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

no (in the old days) Concordes.

I don't think Concorde ever made a profit, even with the super rich / banker (with a B) 

Ohhh yes it did 

Indeed, although as it lacked passenger payload capacity v. costs, each passenger had to pay a considerable premium for flying on Concorde. 

That actually produced a small profit on Concorde flights for BA when full.  However along came the Paris crash, then worse still 9/11!  It decimated passenger numbers on Concorde in particular, and spelt the end to a great aircraft that could never catter for the mass passenger markets due to the running costs.

The passenger loadings needed to be double the number from the start, with of course full access to all major USA airports which it never secured.  The "son of Concorde" as envisaged by the great man himself, Sir Barnes Wallace, would have been double the size and no doubt would have overcome the issues of noise produced by those wonderful Olympus engines! 

But that is one of those points in history of "if, maybe, should of, if only"!

One day supersonic passenger transport will return