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[albitz]

http://news.aol.co.uk/uk-news/story/un-approves-no-fly-zone-over-libya/1664532/

If we are going to be involved in enforcing this "No fly zone" operation, do we have the aircraft to do the job ?
Should we be doing the job ?
David Davis made the point today that the Strategic defence review should be reversed immediately. It reccomended scrapping carriers and the planes which launch from them as there was no realistic reason to suggest they would be needed in the foreseeable future.
Looks like it might be proved wrong almost before the ink is dry on the paper.

[Dishevelled Den]

Yet again we (in the West) insist in interfering in the affairs of countries where the normally accepted rule of conduct is tenuous to say the least.

This will be another almighty cluster opps to the mad house. [smiley=thumbdown.gif]

[Nickbat]

http://news.aol.co.uk/uk-news/story/un-approves-no-fly-zone-over-libya/1664532/

If we are going to be involved in enforcing this "No fly zone" operation, do we have the aircraft to do the job ?
Should we be doing the job ?
David Davis made the point today that the Strategic defence review should be reversed immediately. It reccomended scrapping carriers and the planes which launch from them as there was no realistic reason to suggest they would be needed in the foreseeable future.
Looks like it might be proved wrong almost before the ink is dry on the paper.

The Conservatives should have chosen David Davis over Cameron when they had the chance.

[albitz]

If they had have done Nick, I would be voting for them. I have a lot of respect for him, but they had to go and choose the "heir to Blair". Blair is now ancient history whom no-one wants to remember, and Cameron looks more each day like a boy doing a mans job.
They definitely mad a big mistake, and could well pay for it next time at the polls.

[Nickbat]

If they had have done Nick, I would be voting for them. I have a lot of respect for him, but they had to go and choose the 2heir to Blair. Blair is now ancient history whom no-one wants to remember, and Cameron looks more each day like a boy doing a mans job.
They definitely mad a big mistake, and could well pay for it next time at the polls.

Me, too, Albs. Cameron is a dangerous and foolish man, IMHO. 

[albitz]

Yet again we (in the West) insist in interfering in the affairs of countries where the normally accepted rule of conduct is tenuous to say the least.

This will be another almighty cluster blank to the mad house. [smiley=thumbdown.gif]

I would tend to agree Z, but the one big worry is that several of these uprisings are Shia muslims(majorities) against Sunni,s(inherited monarchies) and if they are successful, they could end up with the Iranian version of Shi,ite Muslim Democracy, with Iran - in the longer term - building itself an empire in the middle east. That doesnt bear thinking about from a world peace viewpoint imo.

[Dishevelled Den]

Yet again we (in the West) insist in interfering in the affairs of countries where the normally accepted rule of conduct is tenuous to say the least.

This will be another almighty cluster blank to the mad house. [smiley=thumbdown.gif]

I would tend to agree Z, but the one big worry is that several of these uprisings are Shia muslims(majorities) against Sunni,s(inherited monarchies) and if they are successful, they could end up with the Iranian version of Shi,ite Muslim Democracy, with Iran - in the longer term - building itself an empire in the middle east. That doesnt bear thinking about from a world peace viewpoint imo.

Yes a very fluid situation is developing in the region.

Our best hope (for our own stability) was that the existing arrangements held - howsoever iniquitous for the people in the countries concerned.

Now that many people in those countries are challenging the status quo within their respective nations, the resultant instability will spell trouble for us in the short to medium term - just at a time we don't need it.

Do we have the resources, the will or the determination to get bogged down in yet another sandy country?

History is being ignored yet again.

I spoke against the invasion of Iraq and the later invasion of Afghanistan and I must speak against the proposed action against Libya with all the mission creep that it threatens.

[ffcgary1]

No we havant got the planes to enforce this No fly zone, remember he has just scrapped the harriers and Nimrod long range radar planes, along with 3 aircraft carriers too. Cameron is out of his depth in every way.
HOME AND ABROAD.

[albitz]

Agreed - although I cant imagine it possible that this govt. could ever end up doing more harm to this country than the previous one did. It was the worst excuse for a govt. in my lifetime.

[Vamps]

Agreed - although I cant imagine it possible that this govt. could ever end up doing more harm to this country than the previous one did. It was the worst excuse for a govt. in my lifetime.

They are trying there best......

[albitz]

Yet again we (in the West) insist in interfering in the affairs of countries where the normally accepted rule of conduct is tenuous to say the least.

This will be another almighty cluster blank to the mad house. [smiley=thumbdown.gif]

I would tend to agree Z, but the one big worry is that several of these uprisings are Shia muslims(majorities) against Sunni,s(inherited monarchies) and if they are successful, they could end up with the Iranian version of Shi,ite Muslim Democracy, with Iran - in the longer term - building itself an empire in the middle east. That doesnt bear thinking about from a world peace viewpoint imo.

Yes a very fluid situation is developing in the region.

Our best hope (for our own stability) was that the existing arrangements held - howsoever iniquitous for the people in the countries concerned.

Now that many people in those countries are challenging the status quo within their respective nations, the resultant instability will spell trouble for us in the short to medium term - just at a time we don't need it.

Do we have the resources, the will or the determination to get bogged down in yet another sandy country?

History is being ignored yet again.

I spoke against the invasion of Iraq and the later invasion of Afghanistan and I must speak against the proposed action against Libya with all the mission creep that it threatens.

And if Gadaffi retakes Benghazi before the planes arrive there, then it is a situation of either beating a quick (but humiliating) retreat, or engaging in (another) regime change operation, and all that is implied in that scenario - Us and others helping to manage the country and prop up his successors for years to come.

[albitz]

Agreed - although I cant imagine it possible that this govt. could ever end up doing more harm to this country than the previous one did. It was the worst excuse for a govt. in my lifetime.

They are trying there best......

They havent yet begun to scratch the surface in comparison to what Bliar and Brown did Vamps. But people have short memories, and their honeymoon period is just about over imo

[jerry]

hypothetical of course, but if the west was not so reliant on oil and its leaders therefore inbed with the exessively rich minority who run/ran these countries ,makes you wonder what our stance would be towards the current middle east crisis. Previous western imperialistic interference in the area has much to answer for too. My guess is that if it wasnt for the oil we'd pay as much attention to the area as we do the Congo. Bottom line is its about money not democracy or religion so lets not forget who gave/traded the technology and weapons tothem that we worry about so much now nor who made the area as powerful/influential as it is. Are we now reaping what the west itself has sown? Worrying times indeed and agree with others that cant see Cameron having the qualities we need to deal with the situation

[Dishevelled Den]

hypothetical of course, but if the west was not so reliant on oil and its leaders therefore inbed with the exessively rich minority who run/ran these countries ,makes you wonder what our stance would be towards the current middle east crisis. Previous western imperialistic interference in the area has much to answer for too. My guess is that if it wasnt for the oil we'd pay as much attention to the area as we do the Congo. Bottom line is its about money not democracy or religion so lets not forget who gave/traded the technology and weapons tothem that we worry about so much now nor who made the area as powerful/influential as it is. Are we now reaping what the west itself has sown? Worrying times indeed and agree with others that cant see Cameron having the qualities we need to deal with the situation

Yes I certainly agree that the seeds of successive crops sown in that area are now beginning to produce bitter fruit Jerry.

The maintenance of a readably accessible, dependable and affordable supply of oil is certainly one of the reasons why so much attention is being paid to the situation in that region.

The other (insofar as this piece is concerned) is the need to monitor the likelihood that a nuclear capable Israel will be goaded into unilateral action against any one of her tormentors.

[Banjax]

David Owen said on day one of the uprising we needed a UN resolution for a no-fly zone to prevent the massacre of thousands, unfortunately we all dithered, while we're at it we should be condemning the rulers in Bahrain but no we can't afford any large operation in Libya nor can we afford not to - its Iraq all over again - we were right to take out Saddam and it'd right to take out Gaddaffi and maybe just maybe the Libyan people will overlook our friendship with him, but the fact is they want and need our help and we have to give it - yes it'll be messy and prolonged but thats the price of oil these days - dress it up all you want in "democracy this, freedom that and humanitarian the other" but just like Iraq its about control of oil - whether we can stomach our reliance on the black stuff much longer is going to be tested as it dries up in the coming years, but until it does run out we better get used to sticking our noses in places we'd rather not be