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[mantagte]

sure you can carefully select N

[Vamps]

i just specifically meant the one handed driving example 

Drive a manual properly, and you'll have both hands on the wheel during a manouver.

As to cruising, I bet as many manual owners do this as auto owners.

Though a manual gives ultimate control, and control=safety

i disagree.  yes, driving it properly should give you full control but of course being human we are prone to human error however good a driver we are. and of course with the manual, yes you can get speed exactly as you want it but not two hands on the wheel all the time. swings and roundabouts.

sorry, dont understand the second bit. obviously auto is go and stop so no cruising in neutral as is poss with manual 

You are not in control of the vehicle doing that.......

thats my point vamps..... you cant do this in an auto 

  So always in control as in the right gear for anything in an auto......

[TheBoy]

So always in control as in the right gear for anything in an auto......

One of the issues with autos just rammed in D is it cannot predict what you haven't started to do. Thus us has a rather nasty habit of dropping a peg or 2 mid corner, which can be far from ideal if traction isn't there.

A manual's ECU in this scenario knows what you were planning, thus ensures suitable cog already selected

[Kevin Wood]

If you find yourself trying to change gear while manoeuvring it's time to hang up your keys and resort to public transport. 

In a manual, driven properly, you should always be in a sensible gear for your speed with drive engaged before manoeuvring, so the gearbox is not a distraction, which is more than an auto manages sometimes.

Even if you get caught out, a manual can be slipped into the correct gear quicker than an auto will pick up, if competently driven. The driver will also know, when he buries his right foot, whether he'll get 1st, 2nd or 3rd gear, which can be useful, at times.

Autos are great for piddling about in traffic and commuting but the more I drive my auto (and it's almost 100% of my driving currently), the more I appreciate the few occasions when I get back into a manual car.

..and as for cruising in neutral, that's exactly what every auto does when you take your foot off the loud pedal. No engine braking whatsoever.

[Webby the Bear]

i just specifically meant the one handed driving example 

Drive a manual properly, and you'll have both hands on the wheel during a manouver.

As to cruising, I bet as many manual owners do this as auto owners.

Though a manual gives ultimate control, and control=safety

i disagree.  yes, driving it properly should give you full control but of course being human we are prone to human error however good a driver we are. and of course with the manual, yes you can get speed exactly as you want it but not two hands on the wheel all the time. swings and roundabouts.

sorry, dont understand the second bit. obviously auto is go and stop so no cruising in neutral as is poss with manual 

Not if driven properly whilst negotiating obstacles.


Having a solid connection between engine and driven wheels will always be safer than having a fluid coupling in between, for those days when power will get you out of harms way.

but then should crappy slow little euro boxes like kia picanto's be banned then? e.g. a manual kia picanto (1 litre or whatever they are) vs my auto omega. irrespective of whether he was in the right gear or not i'd put money on my mig out performing that in every way whether going round a bend, up a hill or standing start.............

WTF?

Now you are comparing cheap, economical, budget runarounds with a 30 grand executive 200bhp saloon 

For the record, around town, I'd put my Rover 25 (manual) up against your Omega (auto) and probably embarrass you

yes. you're saying that in manual cars you have more control because you can dictate the acceleration better. yet (in the kia example) my auto would wee on the manual because its a small engined car. so, as you've deemed my auto to be less safe than your manual rover (due to the aforementioned better acceleration for those times when you need immediate power), do you think the little kia should be banned because it's less safer than my omega and much less safer than your rover. 

[Webby the Bear]

i just specifically meant the one handed driving example 

Drive a manual properly, and you'll have both hands on the wheel during a manouver.

As to cruising, I bet as many manual owners do this as auto owners.

Though a manual gives ultimate control, and control=safety

i disagree.  yes, driving it properly should give you full control but of course being human we are prone to human error however good a driver we are. and of course with the manual, yes you can get speed exactly as you want it but not two hands on the wheel all the time. swings and roundabouts.

sorry, dont understand the second bit. obviously auto is go and stop so no cruising in neutral as is poss with manual 

You are not in control of the vehicle doing that.......

thats my point vamps..... you cant do this in an auto 

/panto mode

Oh yes you can.

sorry, i meant you can't do this when in drive 

[JamesV6CDX]

you sure about your last paragraph kev? When I go down birdlip hill, i seem to get quite a bit of engine braking in my auto. Especially if i hit sport mode?

[TheBoy]

yes. you're saying that in manual cars you have more control because you can dictate the acceleration better. yet (in the kia example) my auto would wee on the manual because its a small engined car. so, as you've deemed my auto to be less safe than your manual rover (due to the aforementioned better acceleration for those times when you need immediate power), do you think the little kia should be banned because it's less safer than my omega and much less safer than your rover. 

As I said in my original post on this thread, its not the gearbox or the engine thats unsafe, its the tit in holding the wheel.

You query was is an auto safer than a manual. Its reasonable to assume that your were comparing like with like - there is a tank driving experience place around the corner here, no ideal what sort of gearbox they have, but can assure you it will be a safer drive than any Omega

[TheBoy]

sorry, i meant you can't do this when in drive 

A manual can't coast if the driver leaves it in gear with the clutch out

See, its the driver, not the gearbox.

[mantagte]

yes. you're saying that in manual cars you have more control because you can dictate the acceleration better. yet (in the kia example) my auto would wee on the manual because its a small engined car. so, as you've deemed my auto to be less safe than your manual rover (due to the aforementioned better acceleration for those times when you need immediate power), do you think the little kia should be banned because it's less safer than my omega and much less safer than your rover. 

As I said in my original post on this thread, its not the gearbox or the engine thats unsafe, its the tit in holding the wheel.

You query was is an auto safer than a manual. Its reasonable to assume that your were comparing like with like - there is a tank driving experience place around the corner here, no ideal what sort of gearbox they have, but can assure you it will be a safer drive than any Omega

my son will disagree on taking his lessons in a tank he hit a tree and broke his nose

[TheBoy]

you sure about your last paragraph kev? When I go down birdlip hill, i seem to get quite a bit of engine braking in my auto. Especially if i hit sport mode?

Downhill, an auto will lock TC.

On the flat, at lower than cruise speeds it won't.

And you can never quite be sure when it will lock and unlock it - when the manual's ECU is organic, you know exactly when it is going to do it. Assuming you don't have pencils up your nose, and underpants on head. Wibble.

[Webby the Bear]

yes. you're saying that in manual cars you have more control because you can dictate the acceleration better. yet (in the kia example) my auto would wee on the manual because its a small engined car. so, as you've deemed my auto to be less safe than your manual rover (due to the aforementioned better acceleration for those times when you need immediate power), do you think the little kia should be banned because it's less safer than my omega and much less safer than your rover. 

As I said in my original post on this thread, its not the gearbox or the engine thats unsafe, its the tit in holding the wheel.

You query was is an auto safer than a manual. Its reasonable to assume that your were comparing like with like - there is a tank driving experience place around the corner here, no ideal what sort of gearbox they have, but can assure you it will be a safer drive than any Omega

very true  we'll leave ith there 

just out of interest though, coming back to comments re engine braking. what exactly does that mean? i've always wondered what happens to the gearbox under brealing? does it go in to neutral so in effect coasts? 

[TheBoy]

yes. you're saying that in manual cars you have more control because you can dictate the acceleration better. yet (in the kia example) my auto would wee on the manual because its a small engined car. so, as you've deemed my auto to be less safe than your manual rover (due to the aforementioned better acceleration for those times when you need immediate power), do you think the little kia should be banned because it's less safer than my omega and much less safer than your rover. 

As I said in my original post on this thread, its not the gearbox or the engine thats unsafe, its the tit in holding the wheel.

You query was is an auto safer than a manual. Its reasonable to assume that your were comparing like with like - there is a tank driving experience place around the corner here, no ideal what sort of gearbox they have, but can assure you it will be a safer drive than any Omega

my son will disagree on taking his lessons in a tank he hit a tree and broke his nose

Had he done the same in Webby's auto Omega, he'd be far worse off after snogging an airbag

[TheBoy]

i've always wondered what happens to the gearbox under brealing? does it go in to neutral so in effect coasts? 

Depends on the inputs into the ecu.  On the flat, approaching a roundabout (one of your previous 'pros' for autos), it will be coasting with the engine 'mostly' disconnected from the wheels.

[Webby the Bear]

yes. you're saying that in manual cars you have more control because you can dictate the acceleration better. yet (in the kia example) my auto would wee on the manual because its a small engined car. so, as you've deemed my auto to be less safe than your manual rover (due to the aforementioned better acceleration for those times when you need immediate power), do you think the little kia should be banned because it's less safer than my omega and much less safer than your rover. 

As I said in my original post on this thread, its not the gearbox or the engine thats unsafe, its the tit in holding the wheel.

You query was is an auto safer than a manual. Its reasonable to assume that your were comparing like with like - there is a tank driving experience place around the corner here, no ideal what sort of gearbox they have, but can assure you it will be a safer drive than any Omega

my son will disagree on taking his lessons in a tank he hit a tree and broke his nose

Had he done the same in Webby's auto Omega, he'd be far worse off after snogging an airbag

lol. i actually wrote off my astra in 2003. got to say hitting the airbag was quite a comfortable experience. although i dont think ill ever forget the smell (from the airbag, not my pants)