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[Lazydocker]

Interesting Vamps. I have to agree and disagree with parts. Yes, they do "obey rules" when they want to. There was one occasion where he and mum were out walking... He must have been about 11 or 12 and asked if he could walk on ahead. The answer was yes, but wait for me at the bridge. She got to the bridge and he was nowhere to be seen. She went home and he wasn't there, searched around for a couple of hours and still couldn't find him. Another hour went by and then I got the call... He's disappeared! Jumped in the car and got about 90 mins up the road before I got another call... Found him!

Now here's where it gets interesting... He thought they were walking to Easby Abbey, about 4 miles away, (because that's what he wanted to do!) where there is a bridge just before they get there. That's where she found him... Sat waiting at the bridge! He's been there foe about 3 or 4 hours

But some sufferers do show violent behaviour. That said, he does also have other issues He was her 40th birthday present and completely unplanned Against all advice she refused to have many of the recommended tests as she refused point blank to consider a termination and he was born with some minor symptoms and traits of Down's Syndrome too. It took about 14 years for mum to admit that she might have made the wrong decision

Like I said, in my experience it is conceivable that it could have played a part. But I only make that judgement based upon my experiences with Jack (my brother) and his combination of problems

[Nickbat]

Interesting posts, Vamps.

This is getting to the core of the problem. No-one, we would think, would shoot young children at point blank range...yet someone did. The mindset of the killer is something that most rational people could not even contemplate. And yet, we have to if we are to if we are to prevent similar outrages occurring in the future.

Thanks for bringing the debate above the pure gun-control dimension. Gun control, in itself, does not address the problem of individuals acting outside the realms of morality. We need to focus more on the causes, not the actions.

We are almost contemplating human madness. Horrid to imagine for anyone that is sane.

[Vamps]

Interesting Vamps. I have to agree and disagree with parts. Yes, they do "obey rules" when they want to. There was one occasion where he and mum were out walking... He must have been about 11 or 12 and asked if he could walk on ahead. The answer was yes, but wait for me at the bridge. She got to the bridge and he was nowhere to be seen. She went home and he wasn't there, searched around for a couple of hours and still couldn't find him. Another hour went by and then I got the call... He's disappeared! Jumped in the car and got about 90 mins up the road before I got another call... Found him!

Now here's where it gets interesting... He thought they were walking to Easby Abbey, about 4 miles away, (because that's what he wanted to do!) where there is a bridge just before they get there. That's where she found him... Sat waiting at the bridge! He's been there foe about 3 or 4 hours

But some sufferers do show violent behaviour. That said, he does also have other issues He was her 40th birthday present and completely unplanned Against all advice she refused to have many of the recommended tests as she refused point blank to consider a termination and he was born with some minor symptoms and traits of Down's Syndrome too. It took about 14 years for mum to admit that she might have made the wrong decision
Like I said, in my experience it is conceivable that it could have played a part. But I only make that judgement based upon my experiences with Jack (my brother) and his combination of problems

I am in no way judging your Mums thoughts but all the parents I know with children with autism, mostly severe, still love their child even though some are frightened by them, it's their unpredictable behaviour that does it. Most children with autism are very literal and rigid in their thinking, their world is different to ours, but then you know that having lived with it.
It is a very difficult subject and no two children are the same, I know many who do not speak which creates frustration which turns to aggressive behaviour, I know some families who have 'Panic Alarms' fitted to call reinforcements........tis a complicated issue, they are all different and do not fit into ticky boxes, and I am no psychiatrist.....

[Lazydocker]

Interesting Vamps. I have to agree and disagree with parts. Yes, they do "obey rules" when they want to. There was one occasion where he and mum were out walking... He must have been about 11 or 12 and asked if he could walk on ahead. The answer was yes, but wait for me at the bridge. She got to the bridge and he was nowhere to be seen. She went home and he wasn't there, searched around for a couple of hours and still couldn't find him. Another hour went by and then I got the call... He's disappeared! Jumped in the car and got about 90 mins up the road before I got another call... Found him!

Now here's where it gets interesting... He thought they were walking to Easby Abbey, about 4 miles away, (because that's what he wanted to do!) where there is a bridge just before they get there. That's where she found him... Sat waiting at the bridge! He's been there foe about 3 or 4 hours

But some sufferers do show violent behaviour. That said, he does also have other issues He was her 40th birthday present and completely unplanned Against all advice she refused to have many of the recommended tests as she refused point blank to consider a termination and he was born with some minor symptoms and traits of Down's Syndrome too. It took about 14 years for mum to admit that she might have made the wrong decision
Like I said, in my experience it is conceivable that it could have played a part. But I only make that judgement based upon my experiences with Jack (my brother) and his combination of problems

I am in no way judging your Mums thoughts but all the parents I know with children with autism, mostly severe, still love their child even though some are frightened by them, it's their unpredictable behaviour that does it. Most children with autism are very literal and rigid in their thinking, their world is different to ours, but then you know that having lived with it.
It is a very difficult subject and no two children are the same, I know many who do not speak which creates frustration which turns to aggressive behaviour, I know some families who have 'Panic Alarms' fitted to call reinforcements........tis a complicated issue, they are all different and do not fit into ticky boxes, and I am no psychiatrist.....

Sorry, my wording wasn't the best. In no way does she regret having him (most of the time ) but regrets not having the relevant tests so she knew what to expect, although there is no test for Autism during pregnancy.

The trouble is, she hasn't helped the situation in the way she has treated him growing up. He is much better behaved when I am around but I have always treated him "normally" and never let him get away with playing up.

I'm hoping that by moving him out and making him more independent, but with the safety of "supervision", he will become more "normal" and possibly even learn to integrate with society a little. 

[Lazydocker]

But, as you say, every case is different and doesn't fit ticky boxes

Part of me feels some guilt in that things may have been different if I had been around more. He's 16 years younger than me and I was the only "Father Figure" in his life But I also had my own life to build Certainly he wouldn't (and doesn't) get away with some of his less appealing traits when I'm around

[Vamps]

Interesting Vamps. I have to agree and disagree with parts. Yes, they do "obey rules" when they want to. There was one occasion where he and mum were out walking... He must have been about 11 or 12 and asked if he could walk on ahead. The answer was yes, but wait for me at the bridge. She got to the bridge and he was nowhere to be seen. She went home and he wasn't there, searched around for a couple of hours and still couldn't find him. Another hour went by and then I got the call... He's disappeared! Jumped in the car and got about 90 mins up the road before I got another call... Found him!

Now here's where it gets interesting... He thought they were walking to Easby Abbey, about 4 miles away, (because that's what he wanted to do!) where there is a bridge just before they get there. That's where she found him... Sat waiting at the bridge! He's been there foe about 3 or 4 hours

But some sufferers do show violent behaviour. That said, he does also have other issues He was her 40th birthday present and completely unplanned Against all advice she refused to have many of the recommended tests as she refused point blank to consider a termination and he was born with some minor symptoms and traits of Down's Syndrome too. It took about 14 years for mum to admit that she might have made the wrong decision
Like I said, in my experience it is conceivable that it could have played a part. But I only make that judgement based upon my experiences with Jack (my brother) and his combination of problems

I am in no way judging your Mums thoughts but all the parents I know with children with autism, mostly severe, still love their child even though some are frightened by them, it's their unpredictable behaviour that does it. Most children with autism are very literal and rigid in their thinking, their world is different to ours, but then you know that having lived with it.
It is a very difficult subject and no two children are the same, I know many who do not speak which creates frustration which turns to aggressive behaviour, I know some families who have 'Panic Alarms' fitted to call reinforcements........tis a complicated issue, they are all different and do not fit into ticky boxes, and I am no psychiatrist.....

Sorry, my wording wasn't the best. In no way does she regret having him (most of the time ) but regrets not having the relevant tests so she knew what to expect, although there is no test for Autism during pregnancy.

The trouble is, she hasn't helped the situation in the way she has treated him growing up. He is much better behaved when I am around but I have always treated him "normally" and never let him get away with playing up.

I'm hoping that by moving him out and making him more independent, but with the safety of "supervision", he will become more "normal" and possibly even learn to integrate with society a little. 

He is 'Normal' Paul, it is just that his 'normal' is different from ours....   I spend every day trying to encourage as much independence as possible, age related, for children with disabilities.. I am not sure how old your brother is,might have missed that.. but agree fully with him moving into some form of 'independent living' with appropriate supervision, he needs his own life and your Mum needs hers back...

Mind, you are lucky that such support is available as for Aspergers diagnosed up here get little or no support from Social Services........

[Vamps]

But, as you say, every case is different and doesn't fit ticky boxes

Part of me feels some guilt in that things may have been different if I had been around more. He's 16 years younger than me and I was the only "Father Figure" in his life But I also had my own life to build Certainly he wouldn't (and doesn't) get away with some of his less appealing traits when I'm around

Sounds like we need a chat sometime......

[Lazydocker]

Interesting Vamps. I have to agree and disagree with parts. Yes, they do "obey rules" when they want to. There was one occasion where he and mum were out walking... He must have been about 11 or 12 and asked if he could walk on ahead. The answer was yes, but wait for me at the bridge. She got to the bridge and he was nowhere to be seen. She went home and he wasn't there, searched around for a couple of hours and still couldn't find him. Another hour went by and then I got the call... He's disappeared! Jumped in the car and got about 90 mins up the road before I got another call... Found him!

Now here's where it gets interesting... He thought they were walking to Easby Abbey, about 4 miles away, (because that's what he wanted to do!) where there is a bridge just before they get there. That's where she found him... Sat waiting at the bridge! He's been there foe about 3 or 4 hours

But some sufferers do show violent behaviour. That said, he does also have other issues He was her 40th birthday present and completely unplanned Against all advice she refused to have many of the recommended tests as she refused point blank to consider a termination and he was born with some minor symptoms and traits of Down's Syndrome too. It took about 14 years for mum to admit that she might have made the wrong decision
Like I said, in my experience it is conceivable that it could have played a part. But I only make that judgement based upon my experiences with Jack (my brother) and his combination of problems

I am in no way judging your Mums thoughts but all the parents I know with children with autism, mostly severe, still love their child even though some are frightened by them, it's their unpredictable behaviour that does it. Most children with autism are very literal and rigid in their thinking, their world is different to ours, but then you know that having lived with it.
It is a very difficult subject and no two children are the same, I know many who do not speak which creates frustration which turns to aggressive behaviour, I know some families who have 'Panic Alarms' fitted to call reinforcements........tis a complicated issue, they are all different and do not fit into ticky boxes, and I am no psychiatrist.....

Sorry, my wording wasn't the best. In no way does she regret having him (most of the time ) but regrets not having the relevant tests so she knew what to expect, although there is no test for Autism during pregnancy.

The trouble is, she hasn't helped the situation in the way she has treated him growing up. He is much better behaved when I am around but I have always treated him "normally" and never let him get away with playing up.

I'm hoping that by moving him out and making him more independent, but with the safety of "supervision", he will become more "normal" and possibly even learn to integrate with society a little. 

He is 'Normal' Paul, it is just that his 'normal' is different from ours....   I spend every day trying to encourage as much independence as possible, age related, for children with disabilities.. I am not sure how old your brother is,might have missed that.. but agree fully with him moving into some form of 'independent living' with appropriate supervision, he needs his own life and your Mum needs hers back...

Mind, you are lucky that such support is available as for Aspergers diagnosed up here get little or no support from Social Services........

He's 19 now And he is only a little south of you in North Yorkshire

TBH, a very switched on social worker has been helping... I believe they are using his violence against mum as the reason to get him homed (from the point of her safety)

As for normal... I know, that's why I put "normal"

[Lazydocker]

But, as you say, every case is different and doesn't fit ticky boxes

Part of me feels some guilt in that things may have been different if I had been around more. He's 16 years younger than me and I was the only "Father Figure" in his life But I also had my own life to build Certainly he wouldn't (and doesn't) get away with some of his less appealing traits when I'm around

Sounds like we need a chat sometime......

We did touch on it briefly at the lakes last year and have discussed via PM a few times

When she rang tonight she had things to say but couldn't because he was around so there may have been some developments

[Vamps]

But, as you say, every case is different and doesn't fit ticky boxes

Part of me feels some guilt in that things may have been different if I had been around more. He's 16 years younger than me and I was the only "Father Figure" in his life But I also had my own life to build Certainly he wouldn't (and doesn't) get away with some of his less appealing traits when I'm around

Sounds like we need a chat sometime......

We did touch on it briefly at the lakes last year and have discussed via PM a few times When she rang tonight she had things to say but couldn't because he was around so there may have been some developments

Yes, I know, but things progress, but it sounds like you have it all under control, but the offer is always there...........

[Lazydocker]

But, as you say, every case is different and doesn't fit ticky boxes

Part of me feels some guilt in that things may have been different if I had been around more. He's 16 years younger than me and I was the only "Father Figure" in his life But I also had my own life to build Certainly he wouldn't (and doesn't) get away with some of his less appealing traits when I'm around

Sounds like we need a chat sometime......

We did touch on it briefly at the lakes last year and have discussed via PM a few times When she rang tonight she had things to say but couldn't because he was around so there may have been some developments

Yes, I know, but things progress, but it sounds like you have it all under control, but the offer is always there...........

Thanks 

Anyway... That's plenty of Thread Hijacking for tonight

[Vamps]

But, as you say, every case is different and doesn't fit ticky boxes

Part of me feels some guilt in that things may have been different if I had been around more. He's 16 years younger than me and I was the only "Father Figure" in his life But I also had my own life to build Certainly he wouldn't (and doesn't) get away with some of his less appealing traits when I'm around

Sounds like we need a chat sometime......

We did touch on it briefly at the lakes last year and have discussed via PM a few times When she rang tonight she had things to say but couldn't because he was around so there may have been some developments

Yes, I know, but things progress, but it sounds like you have it all under control, but the offer is always there...........

Thanks 

Anyway... That's plenty of Thread Hijacking for tonight

Indeed, and I am working the week up to Christmas, including Christmas Eve for the first time for at least 16 years.....