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[Lizzie_Zoom]

Have you ever thought about being a politician Lizzie? They like to tell people what to do and tax us more too.

Businesses pay enough tax as it is. And what a bad idea it is to do away with the discs. Then, when computer says no (wrongly) as it often does, it'll end up in all kinds of confusion and inconvenience for law abiding motorists. Driving a v6 means we pay more tax anyway due to lower mpg/higher fuel use. If a 3000 mile a year Daewoo driver doesn't like it, tough, stop driving.

Yes, and I would love to be to sort this country out!

I don't think Geoff would be voting for you, Lizzie! 

Nor do I, and especially once he has read my latest post!!

But I seek no favours, and just tell it as I see it.  This Lady is not for turning!

[kevinp58]

I agree with the idea, as it is just a paper confirmation of what "the computer says".

However, I would go one step further and scrap road tax complete.  It should be a tax when you buy fuel.  The more fuel you buy, and therefore the more miles travelled, the more you pay.

The only stipulation I would place on such a scheme is that the amount of tax applied to fuel for this purpose should be transparent to the public so we know how much we are actually paying.

here here Lizzie toatally agree  it would also stop all the idiots that don't or think they don't have to pay road tax.

[kevinp58]

Have you ever thought about being a politician Lizzie? They like to tell people what to do and tax us more too.

Businesses pay enough tax as it is. And what a bad idea it is to do away with the discs. Then, when computer says no (wrongly) as it often does, it'll end up in all kinds of confusion and inconvenience for law abiding motorists. Driving a v6 means we pay more tax anyway due to lower mpg/higher fuel use. If a 3000 mile a year Daewoo driver doesn't like it, tough, stop driving.

But Geoff, that is our choice when owning a beast. We as individuals have accepted that fact, and if we decide it is unfair then we could always buy a Smart car or similar. If we use it I am afraid we must pay for it.  So that is true in business, and if you use cars to conduct your commerce then you must pay for all the road usage. It can be offset against tax by all good accountants anyway, but any cost that comes through outside that and effects the bottom line must be addressed by the business itself, not subsidised by everyone else.  We live in a capitalist society, and it must pay for itself. If more roads or railways are required due to the business done, then that must be funded by the people using that "service" just as we all pay for the energy we use, or the food we eat.

As I stated earlier no system is completely fair as in life nothing is fair, like the democratic system itself, let alone capitalism, but until there is a suitable alternative we live with it.

  lizzie for primeminister

[Lizzie_Zoom]

Have you ever thought about being a politician Lizzie? They like to tell people what to do and tax us more too.

Businesses pay enough tax as it is. And what a bad idea it is to do away with the discs. Then, when computer says no (wrongly) as it often does, it'll end up in all kinds of confusion and inconvenience for law abiding motorists. Driving a v6 means we pay more tax anyway due to lower mpg/higher fuel use. If a 3000 mile a year Daewoo driver doesn't like it, tough, stop driving.

But Geoff, that is our choice when owning a beast. We as individuals have accepted that fact, and if we decide it is unfair then we could always buy a Smart car or similar. If we use it I am afraid we must pay for it.  So that is true in business, and if you use cars to conduct your commerce then you must pay for all the road usage. It can be offset against tax by all good accountants anyway, but any cost that comes through outside that and effects the bottom line must be addressed by the business itself, not subsidised by everyone else.  We live in a capitalist society, and it must pay for itself. If more roads or railways are required due to the business done, then that must be funded by the people using that "service" just as we all pay for the energy we use, or the food we eat.

As I stated earlier no system is completely fair as in life nothing is fair, like the democratic system itself, let alone capitalism, but until there is a suitable alternative we live with it.

  lizzie for primeminister

Thanks Kevin

I will run for office in 2015, if the coalition lasts that long!

[OOMV6]

Have you ever thought about being a politician Lizzie? They like to tell people what to do and tax us more too.

Businesses pay enough tax as it is. And what a bad idea it is to do away with the discs. Then, when computer says no (wrongly) as it often does, it'll end up in all kinds of confusion and inconvenience for law abiding motorists. Driving a v6 means we pay more tax anyway due to lower mpg/higher fuel use. If a 3000 mile a year Daewoo driver doesn't like it, tough, stop driving.

Computers don't get it wrong per se. It is the inputter. This whole "computer error" tale that gets branded around it BS. Computers are machines programmed by people. Then data is input by people. Then reports are run by people.

Anyway, back on point. Get rid of car tax. Tax fuel, as LZ says. Great idea. PAYG ain't it.

[albitz]

I agree with the idea, as it is just a paper confirmation of what "the computer says".

However, I would go one step further and scrap road tax complete.  It should be a tax when you buy fuel.  The more fuel you buy, and therefore the more miles travelled, the more you pay.

The only stipulation I would place on such a scheme is that the amount of tax applied to fuel for this purpose should be transparent to the public so we know how much we are actually paying.

here here Lizzie toatally agree  it would also stop all the idiots that don't or think they don't have to pay road tax.

It would also mean the DVLA in Swansea would have a hard job explaining itself if it employed more than 5% of its current workforce and worked in anything other than a an average sized office,which is why its unlikely ever to happen.
Currently it would suit me fine.I do around 13,000 miles per year.5000 on LPG and 8000 on fuel which is a maximum of 50p per litre and is completely tax exempt up to 2500 litres per annum per individual user.

[Lazydocker]

It's an idea I have always supported, even though I do in excess of 20k per year in my car on (mostly) private business.

However, as a small business owner with 2 vans (soon to be expanding to 3/4) that each do 35-40k it would be crippling and that cost would have to be passed on to the customer Who, incidentally, will have already paid the extra 15-20p per litre on a tank of fuel that is no use to them and will be drained and recycled as well as having to pay it again on the tank of the correct fuel they will have to fill with

Plus, the only way it could be implemented properly would be for the "RFL" element of fuel tax to be collected separately at source. If it was rolled into fuel duty then it would never end up where it should After all, the money they currently collect in Fuel Duty doesn't always end up where it should and is just treated as a "Flexible Income" (or "Overtime" in layman's terms) for the Treasury

[BazaJT]

I don't know whether putting it on fuel is in the governments thinking,however they are indeed considering doing away with the RFL and bringing in "road pricing" instead.

[STMO123]

Interesting mathematics for you ... If we take the average Annual RFL for an Omega to be £270

and the average mileage covered 10,000

and the average fuel consumption 25 mpg

10,000 miles @25 mpg = 400 galls = 1816 litres per year per omega, so to raise the equivalent of £270 the price per litre would have to rise by 15 p / litre

for the top end cars at £470 a year it would need to be more ... so again .. guessing on averages the actual increase would need to be around 20 p /litre or more and the top end cars would still be "winning" ......

I don't see anyone being happy with a 20 - 25 p /litre increase even if it did mean no more road tax ... especially those at the bottom end of the tax rates !!

headline rate of £1:50 a litre ...... 

Eh? 1816 x £1.30 = £2418.

[Lazydocker]

Interesting mathematics for you ... If we take the average Annual RFL for an Omega to be £270

and the average mileage covered 10,000

and the average fuel consumption 25 mpg

10,000 miles @25 mpg = 400 galls = 1816 litres per year per omega, so to raise the equivalent of £270 the price per litre would have to rise by 15 p / litre

for the top end cars at £470 a year it would need to be more ... so again .. guessing on averages the actual increase would need to be around 20 p /litre or more and the top end cars would still be "winning" ......

I don't see anyone being happy with a 20 - 25 p /litre increase even if it did mean no more road tax ... especially those at the bottom end of the tax rates !!

headline rate of £1:50 a litre ...... 

Eh? 1816 x £1.30 = £2418.

Keep up Esty... 1816 x £0.15 = 272.40

[STMO123]

Interesting mathematics for you ... If we take the average Annual RFL for an Omega to be £270

and the average mileage covered 10,000

and the average fuel consumption 25 mpg

10,000 miles @25 mpg = 400 galls = 1816 litres per year per omega, so to raise the equivalent of £270 the price per litre would have to rise by 15 p / litre

for the top end cars at £470 a year it would need to be more ... so again .. guessing on averages the actual increase would need to be around 20 p /litre or more and the top end cars would still be "winning" ......

I don't see anyone being happy with a 20 - 25 p /litre increase even if it did mean no more road tax ... especially those at the bottom end of the tax rates !!

headline rate of £1:50 a litre ...... 

Eh? 1816 x £1.30 = £2418.

Keep up Esty... 1816 x £0.15 = 272.40

Ahhhhh......I see. Thank you for your patience with an old codger.

[Nick W]

I don't know whether putting it on fuel is in the governments thinking,however they are indeed considering doing away with the RFL and bringing in "road pricing" instead.

You have far more faith in politic than I do.

Road pricing if it ever happens will not be instead of the Road Fund Licence(which is, and always was, a lie), but in addition to. When did a government ever do away with a tax?

[mantahatch]

Interesting mathematics for you ... If we take the average Annual RFL for an Omega to be £270

and the average mileage covered 10,000

and the average fuel consumption 25 mpg

10,000 miles @25 mpg = 400 galls = 1816 litres per year per omega, so to raise the equivalent of £270 the price per litre would have to rise by 15 p / litre

for the top end cars at £470 a year it would need to be more ... so again .. guessing on averages the actual increase would need to be around 20 p /litre or more and the top end cars would still be "winning" ......

I don't see anyone being happy with a 20 - 25 p /litre increase even if it did mean no more road tax ... especially those at the bottom end of the tax rates !!

headline rate of £1:50 a litre ...... 

I understand the maths Entwood, but I do 5,000 miler per year, so for (many?) people like me it makes sense.

Another 20-25p per litre increase for 10,000 mile drivers; I think that would seem acceptable as, let's face it, prices over recent years have gone up much more than that.  With no RFL to pay for, I think many would see it as worthwhile.

When I was on business I was doing 100,000 miles every 18 months, so people on business would pay properly for the use of the road.  Private users would obviously pay far less.  I think that is a fairer (nothing is completly fair of course!!) system.

Sorry Lizzie but I think your wrong. Business would only "appear" to pay more. The reality is they would just pass the extra cost on to there customers, so low mileage people like me would still end paying more. Even a non road user would end paying more.

[omega3000]

    lizzie for primeminister

   + 1 

[bertie1.8vectra]

sorry i dont agree with scrapping road tax and putting it on fuel... I`m on a low income wage as it is and if my wife didnt work then i dont like to think about the consequences.....