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No

34 (82.9%)

Yes, when the roads are covered in snow

1 (2.4%)

Yes, from the end of October to the beginning of March

6 (14.6%)

Don't know

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 26

Voting closed: 25 January 2013, 21:19:08

[cem_devecioglu]

to clarify some points , I want to share some of my experiences:
 
drawbacks for winter tyres
 
* increases consumption around %5 to %10 depending on avg speed..

* if you are going to make a red/green light drag you are a looser

* brakes/clutch wear/tear rate increase

* you need to purchase 4 ideally, which is not cheap..

* if you are living on a high degree hilly area you have chance only
  when its not completely compacted/ice

*they have same speed ratings like summer tyres, but their wear rates
 at high speeds are higher as expected but not that quickly
 
advantages for winter tyres

* forget about 7 celcius limit.. when the weather is below 15 celcius
they work/grip very well and dont wear quickly so that you can use
them at least 2-3  years (or more- I use them at least 4-5 years)

*they can be used whole cold season without installing them back and forth
unlike chains. and they dont damage drive train..

* your suits dont become dirty your hands dont freeze 

*unexpected frosts on bridges, valleys dont bite you unless you dont travel
at the speed of sound

*and very important , you drive your car with confidence

* after their last year you can use them also in summer
 
so if budget permits, I definitely recommend them

Why?

physic rules, increased grip on tyres applies more force on clutch and brake pads

Ah ok. So really minimal then. No different to driving in a dry summer with good quality summer tyres.

yep.. but I will sacrifice clutch and brake pad wear  instead of me , someone and my car..

[OOMV6]

to clarify some points , I want to share some of my experiences:
 
drawbacks for winter tyres
 
* increases consumption around %5 to %10 depending on avg speed..

* if you are going to make a red/green light drag you are a looser

* brakes/clutch wear/tear rate increase

* you need to purchase 4 ideally, which is not cheap..

* if you are living on a high degree hilly area you have chance only
  when its not completely compacted/ice

*they have same speed ratings like summer tyres, but their wear rates
 at high speeds are higher as expected but not that quickly
 
advantages for winter tyres

* forget about 7 celcius limit.. when the weather is below 15 celcius
they work/grip very well and dont wear quickly so that you can use
them at least 2-3  years (or more- I use them at least 4-5 years)

*they can be used whole cold season without installing them back and forth
unlike chains. and they dont damage drive train..

* your suits dont become dirty your hands dont freeze 

*unexpected frosts on bridges, valleys dont bite you unless you dont travel
at the speed of sound

*and very important , you drive your car with confidence

* after their last year you can use them also in summer
 
so if budget permits, I definitely recommend them

Why?

physic rules, increased grip on tyres applies more force on clutch and brake pads

Ah ok. So really minimal then. No different to driving in a dry summer with good quality summer tyres.

yep.. but I will sacrifice clutch and brake pad wear  instead of me , someone and my car..

Couldn't agree more. 

[feeutfo]

Nobody is suggesting winter tyres aren't an advantage in snow.

Merely, that we don't get enough snow to warrant them. Sorry, we just don't!

(I fully understand the need to fit something other than sc3 when it does snow though, to the point that its worth fitting another brand)

It's worth pointing out that of all the pointless discussions we've had on winter tyres, only two uk members have them, or had them. As far as I can remember. With a third only buying them for a trip to Eastern Europe or there abouts.


Why? We don't need them is why! (High ground rural members aside, but that true in Spain as well)

[Lazydocker]

"so the point I would suggest some budget summer tyres perform better in snow..."

 Might I point the honourable admin in the direction of a set of... 

Must admit, I've been quite impressed so far but not really seen anything too bad as we seem to be having a lull... I'll update after tomorrow's dump if it arrives

[cem_devecioglu]

Nobody is suggesting winter tyres aren't an advantage in snow.

Merely, that we don't get enough snow to warrant them. Sorry, we just don't!

(I fully understand the need to fit something other than sc3 when it does snow though, to the point that its worth fitting another brand)

It's worth pointing out that of all the pointless discussions we've had on winter tyres, only two uk members have them, or had them. As far as I can remember. With a third only buying them for a trip to Eastern Europe or there abouts.


Why? We don't need them is why! (High ground rural members aside, but that true in Spain as well)

Chris , our point is you dont need snow to use them..  Use a winter tyre for cold season and keep your expensive sc3 for summer without tear/wear so you can use them longer .. so economically not much difference..
 
ps: I'm sure once you use them you will never give up using winter tyres..

[feeutfo]

Nobody is suggesting winter tyres aren't an advantage in snow.

Merely, that we don't get enough snow to warrant them. Sorry, we just don't!

(I fully understand the need to fit something other than sc3 when it does snow though, to the point that its worth fitting another brand)

It's worth pointing out that of all the pointless discussions we've had on winter tyres, only two uk members have them, or had them. As far as I can remember. With a third only buying them for a trip to Eastern Europe or there abouts.


Why? We don't need them is why! (High ground rural members aside, but that true in Spain as well)

Chris , our point is you dont need snow to use them..  Use a winter tyre for cold season and keep your expensive sc3 for summer without tear/wear so you can use them longer .. so economically not much difference..

Cem break off

This the first week that I would have needed them 5am starts and all.

[TheBoy]

Nobody is suggesting winter tyres aren't an advantage in snow.

Merely, that we don't get enough snow to warrant them. Sorry, we just don't!

Not just snow

[feeutfo]

Nobody is suggesting winter tyres aren't an advantage in snow.

Merely, that we don't get enough snow to warrant them. Sorry, we just don't!

Not just snow

yes just snow. Unless I spin off into a muddy field of course.

Sc3 in cold weather perform better than your autocraps do all year round.

[feeutfo]

Remember, winter tyres aren't just for snow.

Maybe so, but summer tyres of decent quality cope perfectly well in the winter above zero.

Unless to snows, which being generous is only a week of the year in this country, summer tyres are fine.

Agreed.  I was driving on track day tyres on Wednesday last week. Absolutely no problem at all.   

It is only occasional snow and ice that present remotely hazardous driving conditions for summer tyres in this country, and, even then, the ability of all drivers to drive sensibly according to the conditions would make a much bigger impact than the type of rubber on the road. In addition, we have 3 cars, and only the Omega ever gets used in snow and ice, despite the other 2 being used all year round. Am I expected to buy 3 sets of winter tyres, and store them all summer? Nope. It will never fly.

We are a country where nobody even bothers to change a bulb on their car until it's picked up at an annual MOT. Nobody is interested in making their car or their driving safe. It doesn't get a second thought. Most just jump in a car and drive off with a fag in one hand and/or a mobile phone clamped to their ear. Not a though to the air in the tyres, the frost on the windows or the weather conditions. Winter tyres would be the icing on a cake that's yet to be baked IMHO.

/\ see!

[D]

Nobody is suggesting winter tyres aren't an advantage in snow.

Merely, that we don't get enough snow to warrant them. Sorry, we just don't!

Not just snow

yes just snow. Unless I spin off into a muddy field of course.

Sc3 in cold weather perform better than your autocraps do all year round.

Not sure if you are reading any of the posts? It is not snow that matters. The summer tyre rubber hardens below 7 deg or so to the point that it is not suitable for the job it was designed for. I am sure you are aware of black ice as well. You just need to be below 4 deg C for that to happen.

The silica component of winter tyres are much higher, meaning that they remain soft supple and grippy even below 7 deg C. Hence more grip. If grip wasnt important to you, then why use SC3's. Might as well use some Sunnys or enduros or Autogrips or something cheap and Chinese.

Now dont tell me that between Nov and March, out temps are well above 8 deg C. I didnt think so. Hence the point I am trying to make. It is difficult to say that they are not required unless you have really used them. As I said before, I used to be a non-believer as well, till I tried a pair. No, not in Iceland, but in good old England.

Lastly the winter tyres perform similarly to summer tyres in the pricing department. i.e. cheap winter tyres are crap. Something from the Dunlop/Conti/Bridgestone/Goodyear product lines perform really well.

[feeutfo]

Nobody is suggesting winter tyres aren't an advantage in snow.

Merely, that we don't get enough snow to warrant them. Sorry, we just don't!

Not just snow

yes just snow. Unless I spin off into a muddy field of course.

Sc3 in cold weather perform better than your autocraps do all year round.

Not sure if you are reading any of the posts? It is not snow that matters. The summer tyre rubber hardens below 7 deg or so to the point that it is not suitable for the job it was designed for. I am sure you are aware of black ice as well. You just need to be below 4 deg C for that to happen.

The silica component of winter tyres are much higher, meaning that they remain soft supple and grippy even below 7 deg C. Hence more grip. If grip wasnt important to you, then why use SC3's. Might as well use some Sunnys or enduros or Autogrips or something cheap and Chinese.

Now dont tell me that between Nov and March, out temps are well above 8 deg C. I didnt think so. Hence the point I am trying to make. it is difficult to say that they are not required unless you have really used them. As I said before, I used to be a non-believer as well, till I tried a pair. N,o not in Iceland, but in good old England.

Your not reading mine D. Although I wasn't clear to everyone else in my reply to TheBoy.
To be clear, sc3 perform better in low temps than Autogrip , and similarly priced cheap tyres do all year round. Hence my suggestion earlier, that it would be a better piece of legislation, to ban auto grips and the like, rather than introduce a compulsory winter tyre rule.

To put it another way.
Autogrip perform worse in the dry in summer, than sc3 do in the cold temp range of winter tyres.

Therefor a ban on those cheap tyres is more important than enforcing winter tyres for 1 week of snow.

The relevant performance of winter tyres is not in question. Suitability to the uk IS!

[feeutfo]

Plus I did suggest cheap winter tyres might not be such I wise purchase either.

[D]

Nobody is suggesting winter tyres aren't an advantage in snow.

Merely, that we don't get enough snow to warrant them. Sorry, we just don't!

Not just snow

yes just snow. Unless I spin off into a muddy field of course.

Sc3 in cold weather perform better than your autocraps do all year round.

Not sure if you are reading any of the posts? It is not snow that matters. The summer tyre rubber hardens below 7 deg or so to the point that it is not suitable for the job it was designed for. I am sure you are aware of black ice as well. You just need to be below 4 deg C for that to happen.

The silica component of winter tyres are much higher, meaning that they remain soft supple and grippy even below 7 deg C. Hence more grip. If grip wasnt important to you, then why use SC3's. Might as well use some Sunnys or enduros or Autogrips or something cheap and Chinese.

Now dont tell me that between Nov and March, out temps are well above 8 deg C. I didnt think so. Hence the point I am trying to make. it is difficult to say that they are not required unless you have really used them. As I said before, I used to be a non-believer as well, till I tried a pair. N,o not in Iceland, but in good old England.

Your not reading mine D. Although I wasn't clear to everyone else in my reply to TheBoy.
To be clear, sc3 perform better in low temps than Autogrip , and similarly priced cheap tyres do all year round. Hence my suggestion earlier, that it would be a better piece of legislation, to ban auto grips and the like, rather than introduce a compulsory winter tyre rule.

To put it another way.
Autogrip perform worse in the dry in summer, than sc3 do in the cold temp range of winter tyres.

Therefor a ban on those cheap tyres is more important than enforcing winter tyres for 1 week of snow.

The relevant performance of winter tyres is not in question. Suitability to the uk IS!

That is where I disagree. To me the poor grip of SC3's in cold wet weather is similar to the Autogrips in summer.

You are fixated on snow. Winter, not snow! Temperatures, not the white stuff alone. How long does winter last in the UK? Not 1 week the last time I checked.

[feeutfo]

Nobody is suggesting winter tyres aren't an advantage in snow.

Merely, that we don't get enough snow to warrant them. Sorry, we just don't!

Not just snow

yes just snow. Unless I spin off into a muddy field of course.

Sc3 in cold weather perform better than your autocraps do all year round.

Not sure if you are reading any of the posts? It is not snow that matters. The summer tyre rubber hardens below 7 deg or so to the point that it is not suitable for the job it was designed for. I am sure you are aware of black ice as well. You just need to be below 4 deg C for that to happen.

The silica component of winter tyres are much higher, meaning that they remain soft supple and grippy even below 7 deg C. Hence more grip. If grip wasnt important to you, then why use SC3's. Might as well use some Sunnys or enduros or Autogrips or something cheap and Chinese.

Now dont tell me that between Nov and March, out temps are well above 8 deg C. I didnt think so. Hence the point I am trying to make. it is difficult to say that they are not required unless you have really used them. As I said before, I used to be a non-believer as well, till I tried a pair. N,o not in Iceland, but in good old England.

Your not reading mine D. Although I wasn't clear to everyone else in my reply to TheBoy.
To be clear, sc3 perform better in low temps than Autogrip , and similarly priced cheap tyres do all year round. Hence my suggestion earlier, that it would be a better piece of legislation, to ban auto grips and the like, rather than introduce a compulsory winter tyre rule.

To put it another way.
Autogrip perform worse in the dry in summer, than sc3 do in the cold temp range of winter tyres.

Therefor a ban on those cheap tyres is more important than enforcing winter tyres for 1 week of snow.

The relevant performance of winter tyres is not in question. Suitability to the uk IS!

That is where I disagree. To me the poor grip of SC3's in cold wet weather is similar to the Autogrips in summer.

this is winter we're measuring against though

That's not my experience with sc3, even the ao1.

But let's say I agree with you, they are similar. Imagine Autogrip in cold wet weather then.

 That still makes sc3 a far superior tyre. And proves the point that Autogrip are shite. Your disagreeing for the sake of it frankly.

[feeutfo]

And I didn't see your edit.

I'll give you a fortnight of winter tyre weather so far. But that's within the realm of a decent summer tyre. If we're talking auto grip then I'd give you about 9months of winter.

You see my point?

Edit typo.