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[cleggy]

There has just been a lengthy item on our BBC news about the latest situation in Turkey Cem.

Tell me, do the red flags just represent socialist groups, or are they the communists?

Interesting to hear your President calling the protesters "pillagers".  Just let him know from me they are actually freedom fighters fighting for the peoples rights as our ancestors did.  So often seen as "terrorists" at the time, but in fact only common people demanding through direct action a revision of politics to recognise democratic justice.

100 years ago the British Suffragettes took action to gain the vote for women and a Emily Davison brought down the Kings horse at Epsom whilst trying to attach a "Votes For Women" scarf, and it killed her.  A heroine amongst many who eventually brought about change with the vote being given to all Women over 21 years of age in 1928.  So democracy takes time as I have stated, and is won eventually by much sweat, toil, and many, many tears.  So it will be in Turkey I suspect.

i sure the president of turkey is sh+tting himself now lizzie

I would be, she'll talk him into submission

[Rods2]

Lizzie, thanks for your interest.. 
 
cant predict the reaction of west on Turkeys current situation, however, if west govts especially USA, didnt support current govt both financially and politically (which I hardly can grasp the truth)  , those people would never become a govt here in the first place.. 
 
and as for democracy.. there is 2 different Turkey actually..  one is well educated with west standards and living by west standards and do believe in democracy which you can compare to Britain democracy , and the other with no standards with an actual east way of thinking.. Unfortunately west supported this east head before

This east / west divide is interesting as it is exactly the same in the country north of you Ukraine. The western side is pro-EU and western style democracy and the eastern side pro-Russian and a much more authoritarian form of democracy. The fact that both countries have this split suggests geography has a strong say in their style of politics and government,where they are both a gateway and a division between east and west, that both countries reflect this division with an east-west political divide looking in their respective directions.

At the moment Ukraine has an Eastern based president and government and this is reflected in the way it is governed.

Good observation Rods.. 

Turkey however is a bit different.. the west east seperation is more like west or iran model which is very different than a Russian model..

Yes I agree also with Rods2 and his excellent observation.

From a personal view and observation, it was very noticeable how the young Slovakian, Romanian, and Ukrainian students at university, who were well versed in their respective countries political history, were so pro-western politics and our way of life.  They saw that as their future, with a determination to do something about their countries politics to advance true democracy.  They said, bar none, that their parents often recalled with fondness the USSR, but they and the young generally now rejected that way of life, seeking a western style of living.

They said Communism still existed, but was generally only supported by some of the elderly.

Change will happen of course in Eastern Europe, but it will take a lot more time.  In Turkey currently that change is again going through a very painful period as Great Britain did in the 18th and 20th centuries:y

Most people are better off now than they were under communism. The exceptions are those those that had good lucrative positions as part of being a member of the ruling communist party. Unfortunately, corruption is still a legacy and major problem in most former communist countries. In Ukraine being a tax official, policeman or border guard is a sought after job, due to the unofficial perks! 

There is still a major divide between the few rich and the many poor, but this is gradually changing due to individual enterprise and a slowly growing middle and high income group. Foreign investment is certainly helping in Ukraine with their IT industry the fastest growing in Europe with many western companies having set up overseas development or data processing divisions. The IT industry is primarily centred around Kiev and Lviv. 5 years ago 80% of the cars in Kiev were old Ladas and the other 20% of foreign manufacture, now it is the opposite with only about 20% Ladas. These seem to have been sold to people in poorer areas where car ownership has gone up but they are largely old Ladas.

There is also much new office and apartment construction going on in Kiev even though their economy was in recession in the second half of 2012 and the 1st quarter of 2013.

[Sir Tigger KC]

Just let him know from me they are actually freedom fighters fighting for the peoples rights as our ancestors did.  So often seen as "terrorists" at the time, but in fact only common people demanding through direct action a revision of politics to recognise democratic justice.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter as the old saying goes..... 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

There has just been a lengthy item on our BBC news about the latest situation in Turkey Cem.

Tell me, do the red flags just represent socialist groups, or are they the communists?

Interesting to hear your President calling the protesters "pillagers".  Just let him know from me they are actually freedom fighters fighting for the peoples rights as our ancestors did.  So often seen as "terrorists" at the time, but in fact only common people demanding through direct action a revision of politics to recognise democratic justice.

100 years ago the British Suffragettes took action to gain the vote for women and a Emily Davison brought down the Kings horse at Epsom whilst trying to attach a "Votes For Women" scarf, and it killed her.  A heroine amongst many who eventually brought about change with the vote being given to all Women over 21 years of age in 1928.  So democracy takes time as I have stated, and is won eventually by much sweat, toil, and many, many tears.  So it will be in Turkey I suspect.

i sure the president of turkey is sh+tting himself now lizzie

Well someone has got to tell him!!

[cem_devecioglu]

currently at the moment more than 5 dead, more than 1000 wounded some are deadly and around 2000 arrested..

we have already passed the point of no return.. public has lost the trust to police .. lots of calls for doctors and help

I cant reach to follow messages in twitter an facebook

[Lizzie_Zoom]

There has just been a lengthy item on our BBC news about the latest situation in Turkey Cem.

Tell me, do the red flags just represent socialist groups, or are they the communists?

communist parties    (one is workers party but communist also)

Interesting to hear your President calling the protesters "pillagers".  Just let him know from me they are actually freedom fighters fighting for the peoples rights as our ancestors did.  So often seen as "terrorists" at the time, but in fact only common people demanding through direct action a revision of politics to recognise democratic justice.

this "pillagers" will cost him more than he can imagine.. he has lost taksim square in 5 days can say bye bye to his "presidential" dreams.. and more..

100 years ago the British Suffragettes took action to gain the vote for women and a Emily Davison brought down the Kings horse at Epsom whilst trying to attach a "Votes For Women" scarf, and it killed her.  A heroine amongst many who eventually brought about change with the vote being given to all Women over 21 years of age in 1928.  So democracy takes time as I have stated, and is won eventually by much sweat, toil, and many, many tears. So it will be in Turkey I suspect.

will be but cant predict how long and with what cost 

Thanks Cem  

As for your picture; great propaganda for those claiming police brutality!  The protest groups should milk that for all it is worth

[cem_devecioglu]

There has just been a lengthy item on our BBC news about the latest situation in Turkey Cem.

Tell me, do the red flags just represent socialist groups, or are they the communists?

communist parties    (one is workers party but communist also)

Interesting to hear your President calling the protesters "pillagers".  Just let him know from me they are actually freedom fighters fighting for the peoples rights as our ancestors did.  So often seen as "terrorists" at the time, but in fact only common people demanding through direct action a revision of politics to recognise democratic justice.

this "pillagers" will cost him more than he can imagine.. he has lost taksim square in 5 days can say bye bye to his "presidential" dreams.. and more..

100 years ago the British Suffragettes took action to gain the vote for women and a Emily Davison brought down the Kings horse at Epsom whilst trying to attach a "Votes For Women" scarf, and it killed her.  A heroine amongst many who eventually brought about change with the vote being given to all Women over 21 years of age in 1928.  So democracy takes time as I have stated, and is won eventually by much sweat, toil, and many, many tears. So it will be in Turkey I suspect.

will be but cant predict how long and with what cost 

Thanks Cem  

As for your picture; great propaganda for those claiming police brutality!  The protest groups should milk that for all it is worth

if I say there are more than a million pictures against, it wont be exxegeration Lizzie

[Sir Tigger KC]

I just hope to hell that the Turks don't go down the Syrian road! 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

I just hope to hell that the Turks don't go down the Syrian road! 

I agree!

But the leaders of the protest groups in Turkey are talking in terms of a "Revolution" and until their President steps down they will continue with their direct action protests. Therefore there is no telling where this will all go.

But to cheer Cem up I again post my favourite Beatles song that is ideal in these instances:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HanKNe502i4

and then the more radical Beatles song Revolution 9 that if you listen to it closely for the whole, very long, track, as I have done many times over the decades, actually outlines the initial outburst of feelings, highs and lows, the distorted nature of the big political drive, then final peace of a real revolution of the people in musical terms - listen to the chants included. Magnificent for many of us Beatles fans, but maybe too much for those less interested!!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs_LHpiYUF0

After which, as on their original White Album, the Revolution is followed by the very peaceful Goodnight

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIKugx1sToY

Sweet dreams for the people of Turkey, Goodnight

Brilliant! 

 

[cem_devecioglu]

I just hope to hell that the Turks don't go down the Syrian road! 

thanks for your wish Tigger
 
I dont think it will be like Syria, but its early to be sure and to say anything

[cem_devecioglu]

I just hope to hell that the Turks don't go down the Syrian road! 

I agree!

But the leaders of the protest groups in Turkey are talking in terms of a "Revolution" and until their President steps down they will continue with their direct action protests. Therefore there is no telling where this will all go.

But to cheer Cem up I again post my favourite Beatles song that is ideal in these instances:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HanKNe502i4

and then the more radical Beatles song Revolution 9 that if you listen to it closely for the whole, very long, track, as I have done many times over the decades, actually outlines the initial outburst of feelings, highs and lows, the distorted nature of the big political drive, then final peace of a real revolution of the people in musical terms - listen to the chants included. Magnificent for many of us Beatles fans, but maybe too much for those less interested!!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs_LHpiYUF0

After which, as on their original White Album, the Revolution is followed by the very peaceful Goodnight

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIKugx1sToY

Sweet dreams for the people of Turkey, Goodnight

Brilliant! 

 

thanks Lizzie

[omega3000]

currently at the moment more than 5 dead, more than 1000 wounded some are deadly and around 2000 arrested..

we have already passed the point of no return.. public has lost the trust to police .. lots of calls for doctors and help

I cant reach to follow messages in twitter an facebook

 

[Lizzie_Zoom]

I just hope to hell that the Turks don't go down the Syrian road! 

thanks for your wish Tigger
 
I dont think it will be like Syria, but its early to be sure and to say anything

No, now perhaps not Cem.

To me, with the latest news that the protests are escalating and spreading to other cities away from Istanbul, it seems the form this is all taking is more like what transpired in Egypt with the ousting of their President.  What do you think Cem?

[cem_devecioglu]

I just hope to hell that the Turks don't go down the Syrian road! 

thanks for your wish Tigger
 
I dont think it will be like Syria, but its early to be sure and to say anything

No, now perhaps not Cem.

To me, with the latest news that the protests are escalating and spreading to other cities away from Istanbul, it seems the form this is all taking is more like what transpired in Egypt with the ousting of their President.  What do you think Cem?

there is a saying in my country " the elf left the bottle"  , meaning we have left the point of no return behind..
 
the country become unstable to say the least..  including the justice system..  and most of the citizens lost their trust..
 
and that aside the pm is too stubborn .. so I expect things will get worse
 
ps: he has now left the country for a "trip"

[Kevin Wood]

I just hope to hell that the Turks don't go down the Syrian road! 

thanks for your wish Tigger
 
I dont think it will be like Syria, but its early to be sure and to say anything

No, now perhaps not Cem.

To me, with the latest news that the protests are escalating and spreading to other cities away from Istanbul, it seems the form this is all taking is more like what transpired in Egypt with the ousting of their President.  What do you think Cem?

there is a saying in my country " the elf genie left the bottle lamp"  , meaning we have left the point of no return behind..
 
the country become unstable to say the least..  including the justice system..  and most of the citizens lost their trust..
 
and that aside the pm is too stubborn .. so I expect things will get worse
 
ps: he has now left the country for a "trip"

Fixed that for you.