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[Jabe]

ps: if you are planning to come here , only visit southern touristic zones.. stay away from big cities..

Stop scarmongering, haha

On a serious level Cem this is no longer a protest, and never really had been. A bunch of opportunists took over VERY quickly.

I blame the 'real' protestors for the situation spiraling out of control (by real I mean the peaceful folk with the original intention of the protest.)

When these opportunists arrived from all walks of the country (and from abroad, suprise suprise) the real protesters should have told them to either fook off and leave their peaceful protest alone, or should have simply walked away immediately after realizing their protest had been hijacked. This made it extremely difficult for the police and that is a fact (no I'm not taking sides.)

The only reason why this 'peaceful' protest (ha!) is still going on is because the police have no clue who is who half of the time and the good folk aren't doing them any favors by mixing in with the people who have terrorized and tarnished Istanbul (and now the rest of Turkey.)

Do you know how much damage was done to the innocent shop keepers, homes and cars of people who work and live there? How ignorant are these protestors to not realise what is going on around them and simply say "OK, the protest has been hijacked" and walk away? The moment political flags began waving, that protest was long lost.

I have no sympathy for the 'protestors' or the police for that matter.

What really ticked me off is when Obama, the president of the great (haha) United States of America got up on T.V and said how bad the Turkish police handled the situation and generally badmouthed the country.

Meanwhile in America...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YC3OAMi9kjY

[cem_devecioglu]

Stop scarmongering, haha

  do you know how many foreign cameraman, journalist have been arrested and how many of them beaten

On a serious level Cem this is no longer a protest, and never really had been.

half of the country doesnt agree with that opinion.. and the whole world.. why do you think people are killed, shot, become blind, wounded and arrested.. and the videos / pictures were lying ? 

A bunch of opportunists took over VERY quickly.

very wrong.. there were people from every political opinion..

I blame the 'real' protestors for the situation spiraling out of control.

 

why you dont mention about police terror and violence is really an unavoidable question to ask ?

(by real I mean the peaceful folk with the original intention of the protest.)

When these opportunists arrived from all walks of the country (and from abroad, suprise suprise) the real protesters should have told them to either fook off and leave their peaceful protest alone, or should have simply walked away immediately after realizing their protest had been hijacked. This made it extremely difficult for the police and that is a fact (no I'm not taking sides.)

you are absolutely holding a side..

Do you know how much damage was done to the innocent shop keepers, homes and cars of people who work and live there?

I live in that country and you are repeating the words of pm.. who cares about your money when people are dying..

How ignorant are these protestors to not realise what is going on around them and simply say "OK, the protest has been hijacked" and walk away? The moment political flags began to be waived, that protest was lost.

the protest has succeded.. but one thing you dont understand obviously is that it has exceeded the subject of park and reached different stages..

[Jabe]

Very wrong.. there were people from every political opinion..

This is exactly my point Cem, what started off as a peaceful protest by a handful of people against a building being constructed, turned into a political war completely irreverent to the cause of the protest. All of which began when random people started showing up waiving political flags and tarnishing the place as an excuse to vent boredom. I will NEVER EVER take sides, especially with people like that. They wanted excitement, they found it, but sadly by hiding behind innocent people.

Do I care for the police? Absolutely not... They are the police... they have the license to behave like a-holes... whats so new about that? I've had first hand experience with police, I know EXACTLY what they are like. No need to convince me there.

the protest has succeded.. but one thing you dont understand obviously is that it has exceeded the subject of park and reached different stages..

Exactly my point... It had nothing to do with the park the second someone pulled out a political flag. Nothing to do with the protest at all. The morning of the protest I was really sympathetic as there was a true point to it. If I was there I would have probably joined in too. However, it spiraled out of control as fast as it started and BOTH sides did NOTHING to stop it.

How do you call all the people hurt in the process, by the cowards who hid behind them, a success? Again, you can't seem to separate the people who are the real protestors from the Molotov lobbers hiding behind them. This is what I am getting at.

The mistake the protestors did was allow people to show up for their own gains and agenda, completely irrelevant to the protest and allow them to mix in with them tarnishing the place in the name of Taksim Square. I mean, c'mon! The whole 'enemy of my enemy' move was a bad one. You just have to accept that.

I live in that country and you are repeating the words of pm.. who cares about your money when people are dying..

Once again, I will not stand by hypocrites who in the name of a peaceful protest, ruined other peoples lives (Molotov bombing random shops and cars, really?!) All done by opportunists who had nothing to do with the protest. When police brutality goes haywire, the response to that is to attack innocent people and their property? and you sympathize with that? I really don't understand. 

I think you missed my point entirely btw. 

[cem_devecioglu]

is just a friggin damn lie..   
 

What? You mean you only just worked this out? 

nope.. but it feels so different to grasp it again when someone breaks your head


thats an interesting compilation.. not too bloody..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIdREXpZBz4

[cem_devecioglu]

Very wrong.. there were people from every political opinion..

This is exactly my point Cem, what started off as a peaceful protest by a handful of people against a building being constructed, turned into a political war completely irreverent to the cause of the protest. All of which began when random people started showing up waiving political flags and tarnishing the place as an excuse to vent boredom. I will NEVER EVER take sides, especially with people like that. They wanted excitement, they found it, but sadly by hiding behind innocent people.

Do I care for the police? Absolutely not... They are the police... they have the license to behave like a-holes... whats so new about that? I've had first hand experience with police, I know EXACTLY what they are like. No need to convince me there.

the protest has succeded.. but one thing you dont understand obviously is that it has exceeded the subject of park and reached different stages..

Exactly my point... It had nothing to do with the park the second someone pulled out a political flag. Nothing to do with the protest at all. The morning of the protest I was really sympathetic as there was a true point to it. If I was there I would have probably joined in too. However, it spiraled out of control as fast as it started and BOTH sides did NOTHING to stop it.

How do you call all the people hurt in the process, by the cowards who hid behind them, a success? Again, you can't seem to separate the people who are the real protestors from the Molotov lobbers hiding behind them. This is what I am getting at.

The mistake the protestors did was allow people to show up for their own gains and agenda, completely irrelevant to the protest and allow them to mix in with them tarnishing the place in the name of Taksim Square. I mean, c'mon! The whole 'enemy of my enemy' move was a bad one. You just have to accept that.

I live in that country and you are repeating the words of pm.. who cares about your money when people are dying..

Once again, I will not stand by hypocrites who in the name of a peaceful protest, ruined other peoples lives (Molotov bombing random shops and cars, really?!) All done by opportunists who had nothing to do with the protest. When police brutality goes haywire, the response to that is to attack innocent people and their property? and you sympathize with that? I really don't understand. 

I think you missed my point entirely btw. 

Jabe, its been many years masses are living under pressure.. the park was the starting point and police and the govt fuelled the fire  and finally people decided to get rid of whole govt.. lots of cities having protest every night for 20 days.. thats not a joke..

[dbdb]

This is exactly my point Cem, what started off as a peaceful protest by a handful of people against a building being constructed, turned into a political war completely irreverent to the cause of the protest. ... It had nothing to do with the park the second someone pulled out a political flag. Nothing to do with the protest at all. The morning of the protest I was really sympathetic as there was a true point to it.

We had a peaceful protest here against the stupid and illegal Iraq war.  1 million people. Achieved SFA.  And that's  in the UK so in Turkey what would it achieve?  On the other hand against Thatcher we had poll tax riots. Seemed to work.   

I think the park is a minor issue compared to other stuff like Erdogan trying to start WW3 in Syria.

[Lizzie_Zoom]

This is exactly my point Cem, what started off as a peaceful protest by a handful of people against a building being constructed, turned into a political war completely irreverent to the cause of the protest. ... It had nothing to do with the park the second someone pulled out a political flag. Nothing to do with the protest at all. The morning of the protest I was really sympathetic as there was a true point to it.

We had a peaceful protest here against the stupid and illegal Iraq war.  1 million people. Achieved SFA.  And that's  in the UK so in Turkey what would it achieve?  On the other hand against Thatcher we had poll tax riots. Seemed to work.   

I think the park is a minor issue compared to other stuff like Erdogan trying to start WW3 in Syria.

Indeed, and as I have said repeatedly on this forum, and elsewhere in academic circles, we must learn from history.  All free mankind has achieved has been with revolt and violence of some type to drive the revolution and make governments sit up and take notice of "the people".  I hate violence, but it is a fact that this element is what makes history change; makes things happen, maybe not instantly, but it turns the tide.

I won't bore everyone by repeating references to historical events as I am sure most of you can identify with key historical events and the changes caused in Great Britain and generally across the world.  What is happening in Turkey is purely an extension of that trend, to change a political system to what the citizens want.  Blood, sweat, tears and death are all part of that process, and the more that is "invested" in that way, the greater the changes will be.

[cem_devecioglu]

This is exactly my point Cem, what started off as a peaceful protest by a handful of people against a building being constructed, turned into a political war completely irreverent to the cause of the protest. ... It had nothing to do with the park the second someone pulled out a political flag. Nothing to do with the protest at all. The morning of the protest I was really sympathetic as there was a true point to it.

We had a peaceful protest here against the stupid and illegal Iraq war.  1 million people. Achieved SFA.  And that's  in the UK so in Turkey what would it achieve?  On the other hand against Thatcher we had poll tax riots. Seemed to work.   

I think the park is a minor issue compared to other stuff like Erdogan trying to start WW3 in Syria.

at the least the pm can say bye bye to his becomeing an ottoman emperor dreams.. and now he saw that there is a wall in front of his endless commands

[cem_devecioglu]

This is exactly my point Cem, what started off as a peaceful protest by a handful of people against a building being constructed, turned into a political war completely irreverent to the cause of the protest. ... It had nothing to do with the park the second someone pulled out a political flag. Nothing to do with the protest at all. The morning of the protest I was really sympathetic as there was a true point to it.

We had a peaceful protest here against the stupid and illegal Iraq war.  1 million people. Achieved SFA.  And that's  in the UK so in Turkey what would it achieve?  On the other hand against Thatcher we had poll tax riots. Seemed to work.   

I think the park is a minor issue compared to other stuff like Erdogan trying to start WW3 in Syria.

Indeed, and as I have said repeatedly on this forum, and elsewhere in academic circles, we must learn from history.  All free mankind has achieved has been with revolt and violence of some type to drive the revolution and make governments sit up and take notice of "the people".  I hate violence, but it is a fact that this element is what makes history change; makes things happen, maybe not instantly, but it turns the tide.

I won't bore everyone by repeating references to historical events as I am sure most of you can identify with key historical events and the changes caused in Great Britain and generally across the world.  What is happening in Turkey is purely an extension of that trend, to change a political system to what the citizens want.  Blood, sweat, tears and death are all part of that process, and the more that is "invested" in that way, the greater the changes will be.

yep..

[Rods2]

Rather than the peaceful park protest being hijacked, IMHO it was a focal point that lit a rebellious fire that has been smoldering for some time where the current government is going against the wishes of the majority where they want a free modern state. They don't want Turkey turned into Iran, which with their new rules like trying to make women wear head-scarfs. It is noticeable how many women are involved in the protests, where they are not going to take religious repression sitting down.

[Jabe]

Rather than the peaceful park protest being hijacked, IMHO it was a focal point that lit a rebellious fire that has been smoldering for some time where the current government is going against the wishes of the majority where they want a free modern state. They don't want Turkey turned into Iran, which with their new rules like trying to make women wear head-scarfs. It is noticeable how many women are involved in the protests, where they are not going to take religious repression sitting down.

No offense but I don't think that had anything to do with it... or did I miss something?

And when were these new proposed laws announced? I never heard anything like that. I don't think anybody did.

Are you suggesting that because women were involved in the protest - they were trying to make some kind of feminist statement? I'm confused here. 

Have you ever been to Turkey?

[cem_devecioglu]

Rather than the peaceful park protest being hijacked, IMHO it was a focal point that lit a rebellious fire that has been smoldering for some time where the current government is going against the wishes of the majority where they want a free modern state. They don't want Turkey turned into Iran, which with their new rules like trying to make women wear head-scarfs. It is noticeable how many women are involved in the protests, where they are not going to take religious repression sitting down.

No offense but I don't think that had anything to do with it... or did I miss something?

And when were these new proposed laws announced? I never heard anything like that. I don't think anybody did.

Are you suggesting that because women were involved in the protest - they were trying to make some kind of feminist statement? I'm confused here. 

Have you ever been to Turkey?

its too much related ı'm afraid.. although there is no law stating that woman must wear those head scarfs,
 
in poor regions of cities especially where villagers have immigrated to, there is a certain unnamed pressure felt by women.. besides there is really two different life styles where  political views also highly differ.. the masses vote this govt party because of religion and their help of food and other goods..
 
and its also very clear that this party invade our lifes and change our life style step by step..  they nearly capture whole justice system after referandum.. 

[dbdb]

Rather than the peaceful park protest being hijacked, IMHO it was a focal point that lit a rebellious fire that has been smoldering for some time where the current government is going against the wishes of the majority where they want a free modern state. They don't want Turkey turned into Iran, which with their new rules like trying to make women wear head-scarfs. It is noticeable how many women are involved in the protests, where they are not going to take religious repression sitting down.

No offense but I don't think that had anything to do with it... or did I miss something?

Maybe you missed this (that's pepper spray)

[cem_devecioglu]

Loraine, is the name of a French university student who has been a random victim detained by police..
and as she is foreign ;she was blamed to be a spy (not the woman in the picture)
 
thats todays news..
 
she was here with the erasmus program ... caught by the police!!!! in taksim , beaten from the head
taken to the police station, before she starts to call a lawyer  some media has announced that she was a spy
 
 

[cem_devecioglu]

Rather than the peaceful park protest being hijacked, IMHO it was a focal point that lit a rebellious fire that has been smoldering for some time where the current government is going against the wishes of the majority where they want a free modern state. They don't want Turkey turned into Iran, which with their new rules like trying to make women wear head-scarfs. It is noticeable how many women are involved in the protests, where they are not going to take religious repression sitting down.

No offense but I don't think that had anything to do with it... or did I miss something?

Maybe you missed this (that's pepper spray)